Hint of Hustle with Heather Sager
This is the podcast for entrepreneurs ready to be SEEN, HEARD & PAID for their expertise, without grinding 24/7 or chasing trends.
Meet your host, former executive turned entrepreneur Heather Sager, bringing 20 years experience in sales, training, speaking and business coaching. Her tough love, practical and hilariously entertaining style will help YOU show up with greater intention, more confidnce and make a bigger impact with your message.
Tune in each week to discover why thousands of business owners have made Heather their go-to business mentor.
Hint of Hustle with Heather Sager
Nail Your Stand-Out Speaking Topics - Exclusive Coaching Session
We’ve all heard versions of the phrase “there are really no new ideas” and “there are thousands of people who do what you do”, so when it comes to speaking on platforms and stages…
How do you talk about something that has already been heard?
How do you find an angle that’s unique and refreshing?
How detailed or broad should your topics be?
Can I talk about stories?
Does it all have to be “teachy” how to?
So. Many. Questions.
And if you’re anything like my clients, the truth is you have DOZENS of things you *could* talk about.
But the question is, how do you craft topics that are both compelling, but also align with your strategic business goals (remember those?😜)
In today's episode I’m doing something I’ve never done before and airing a REAL coaching call where I help a lucky business owner extract the genius out of their head and into 6 (yes SIX!) magnetic speaking topics that they can use for pitching podcasts and stages this year.
I hope this episode will get you fired up to nail your topics so that when invites come your way— or you find an opportunity you want to pitch— you are prepped and ready to pounce!
Grab the NAIL YOUR TOPIC resource mentioned in the episode right here
🔗 Grab the latest FREE resources: https://heathersager.com/start
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Because we get caught up in our heads, we don't know what to say, we don't know how to say it, we overthink, we procrastinate and stall and then we don't get our message out there. So I help women find out how to use their voice and share it through their writing and to ask for the sale, because women have such a hard time asking for that sale, and so I can give you the language that doesn't feel skeezy. I can give you the tools so that you can prep and prime your audience so that they're ready to receive that sale, and mostly I just help people create momentum and consistency so they are getting their message out there.
Speaker 2:This is the podcast for the entrepreneur who wants to make a big impact, who doesn't shy away from hard work but also wants to enjoy life along the way. Hi, I'm Heather Sager, former executive-turned-entrepreneur, and I've spent the last 20 years working with premium brands on sales, marketing and communication, and I've learned that when you become a magnet with your message, you only need a hint of hustle to achieve your goals. Get ready to be inspired and ignited each week with tangible strategies on sales, speaking, marketing and so much more. This is the Hint of Hustle podcast. Let's go Well. Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the Hint of Hustle podcast, today's episode I am friggin stoked about because I have been wanting to do what I'm doing on today's episode Literally since I started the podcast and I don't know, I just never, I just never did it, I just never did it. And today is the day that it's going to happen. And what is it I am doing? Live coaching. Well, not live. It was live when I did it, but I am streaming a coaching call that I did with a peer to help her nail in her guest speaking topics.
Speaker 2:This is one of those challenges that I know a lot of people struggle with and it's the. What do I talk about? Like, what's the? What's the best topic? What are the most aligned topics? I'm like ready to raise my hand and become more visible, getting my face, my message myself, my business out in front of more people. What should I talk about? And what I find is a lot of a lot of people. You hear interviews of people doing like the book tour. They have a book come out, so then they talk about that book and they go on the circuit to promote that book. It's kind of like same thing that when movie stars have movies come out, they do the tour to talk about the movies. The question is what do you talk about? Well, a lot of times if you're doing a launch, like you have a course coming up or a program coming out, you can do a guest speaking tour to promote that thing. But what I find more often than not is podcast hosts are not wanting to talk about the same thing that you're talking about all over the place. They're looking for fresh perspectives, they're looking for unique things and, the most important thing is they are not looking to have someone who's like wreaking let me have access to your audience so I could sell them shit. We're over that. I talk about that a little bit in the episode today. But people are just looking for refreshing conversations with experts, with entrepreneurs, with, I mean, whoever you are. I know your niche, people want to learn more about you, but, more importantly, they want to serve their audiences. So the question is, what do you talk about? Is it the same thing over and over again? Do you have a variety of topics? How do you choose that topic? What angle do you come up with with that talk, tuck it. Oh my gosh. Words are so hard for me, which is why I'm going to do more of this coaching element versus spewing you, spewing on you today. So we're going to have some fun.
Speaker 2:I have my friend, kim Keele, who I met through a peer mastermind. We're in together. We have this incredible group of entrepreneurs, a lot of creative entrepreneurs, and she had posted inside the group that she was looking to see hey, would somebody jump on a Zoom and kind of just let her externally process some idea as to maybe collaborate and help each other? And quite a few peers jumped in and said I'd be happy to help. And I saw the post and I was like, ooh, I can totally help with this. This is literally what I do, and can I stream it to the podcast. And Kim said yes. So that's what was leading up to today.
Speaker 2:I purposely did not do a ton of communication in advance with Kim. I had sent her a voxel message with some homework to prepare for today's call, but I approached it exactly how I would approach it if I were working with one of my clients and, funny enough, kim posted about our session today on Instagram. Immediately after and I kid you, not three and a half minutes after she created that post, I got two DMs from people who follow and have worked with Kim saying what did Kim book you for? How can I book one for me? So I'm thinking that this might be a thing you'll be interested in too. Stick around to the end of the episode. I will tell you how we can do exactly what I did with Kim on today's episode and help you nail your guest speaking topics and maybe even your signature talk topic. So stick around to the end of the episode, but let's jump right to it, all right, kim? I am so stoked to have you here on the show. Welcome, welcome to Hint of Hustle, my dear.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'm so excited to see what comes up today.
Speaker 2:Kim and I were just chatting before we hit record, which seems to be the thing every host always says when they have a guest on a show. But we were talking Kim and I are in a mastermind together and a couple of weeks ago she was asking a question to the group and I very selfishly and generously said Kim, can I just have this conversation with you on the podcast? And now we are here. So we're here today to do a live well, not really live, it's recorded, but you and I are live in the moment coaching call to help you nail in your signature topics for guest speaking, because you have some big visibility goals this year. But before we do that, why don't you take a moment just to introduce yourself, since we are on a podcast, who you are, what you do and maybe a little bit about what you're hoping to get out of today's call?
Speaker 1:You bet my name is Kim Keele. I am a copy coach, a copy mentor, a direct response copywriter and I have a specialty in writing in people's voices so I can like step into your shoes and when I write I sound just like you and I love helping women find their voice and then share their voice through their sales copy. So writing sales copy and writing sales copy that sounds just like you is kind of my sweet spot. I live in Edmonton, Alberta in Canada, and I have been doing this gig sort of as a solo business owner for about six years.
Speaker 2:OK, I love how you said just instantly it stands out that you are the queen of writing in other people's voices, which you and I both know. That is always a huge objection of business owners who have I mean, we have big voices, we have very set in how we do it. So I love that you obviously you know that is a key piece with that. Let's talk about for you what made you raise your hand to say I need some help or some perspective around getting this topic nailed down or a series of topics. Talk a little bit about your visibility goals.
Speaker 1:This year, yeah, sure. So inside the group that we're in, I put my name forward or was reaching out for some support, because I have often held myself back from being visible and being visible on stages, guest expert sessions and pitching myself to be on podcasts. So I really want to grow that area and in fact I really love doing group coaching sessions and speaking on stages. So why I haven't really put myself forward is obviously a block that I'm dealing with. But so I wanted to sort of force myself to get over myself and do that. But also, you know, like I'm a copywriter, there are millions of copyright or well, maybe not millions, but there's definitely dozens and dozens of great copywriters. So I was getting all up in my head about what should my topics be, because everyone else is talking about all these copywriting topics. So I was just all up in my head and I wanted some guidance. For how do you actually choose a topic to pitch for podcasts or to speak on stages?
Speaker 2:I love that you brought up this, both those two points right. I think a lot of people resonate with that idea of I've been building the business and like we know we need to get out there more, but I don't want to. It's just easier. Not to it's a little intimidating, but that piece, around there there are a ton of people who teach copywriting. I mean not to make it dramatic, but the millions probably was close.
Speaker 1:Like there are a lot, there are a lot of copywriting there's a lot of speaking coaches, a lot of communication coaches.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you had this experience when you started your business. I sure did, when I was convinced that there was no one else doing what I do, like everywhere I looked, I couldn't find anyone until the day I found so many people were doing exactly what I did and then I was like, oh, shit, yeah, like, and then I got all up in my head I don't know that happened.
Speaker 1:No, because I think I Was in the nonprofit sector before I moved into this online business world, and part of why I joined and started an online business was because I had discovered this field called copywriting and I saw a few of the quote-unquote famous copywriters and so I knew what was possible, and so that's why I decided to hang my hat on that particular field. So, yes, then it's like, oh my gosh, I'll never be as good as them or who else is doing it. So then, yeah, then I do go get up in my head then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is it that's inspired? It's like that equal parts inspiring and intimidating.
Speaker 1:And it never stops. It never stops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So what would make our session today? What would make it a slam dunk for you, like, what are you really hoping to walk away with from this call?
Speaker 1:I would love to walk away with two or maybe even three potential speaking topics that I could pitch to Podcasts and I. You know I appreciate that there's nuances for pitching and what their audience likes, but just to give me a bit of a Road map, for these are some three really unique topics that would help me stand out amongst the sea of copywriters.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, I think that is a good goal. Yeah, you did your homework that I gave you before our call today, so we have a track record to run with. So I'll loop y'all in that in just a second. Here I'm, but go with me for a moment because I I'm a big fan of Visibility goals. Right, we all know we need to have them, but we need to anchor them towards something. So bear with me here for as I ask you a couple questions. Talk to me a little bit around. What you're hoping that visibility brings to you in your business is, hmm.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping that visibility Brings me more podcast listeners, because I also am a podcaster, so I'd love to grow that. Of course I would like my visibility to grow my revenue. If I could attract a few clients, that would be fabulous. But I also think that I do have a good message and I would love to be able to Create a positive impact with my message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, great. And with your let's talk about that client attraction piece, do you typically work with clients one-on-one? Do you also have courses programs like what are? Give me just a little sneak peek at your offers. Sure.
Speaker 1:So I offer premium one-on-one private copywriting services where I will write your launch copy, your website copy. I'll develop a brand voice guide for you. Those are for business owners who are in the multi six to seven figure range. Then for the, you know, around the six figures to multi six figures. I have a group copy coaching and mentorship program and so that's a midpoint investment. It's four to six months Commitment and I help people write and it's a group, group, group offer and I don't really have anything at the bottom end. Yet I don't have, you know, a low ticket offer other than, like the odd workshop that I might host.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have. You have a variety of opt-ins and for your business. I saw that on your, your kit you sent over to me. What would you say, are your like top For any podcasting or guessing that you've done at this point, what are the top quote-unquote offers that you have?
Speaker 1:put out. So I'm the world's worst copywriter because I don't follow the, I don't practice what I preach. So I for the longest time had the worst Lead magnet ever. And I have only just recently added in two and I was just looking at the day to the other day, in fact and so I have one that's a sales copy scorecard and one that's a brand voice workbook.
Speaker 2:And the brand voice workbook is newer but it is already getting more interest and more clicks Cool and I know it's it's newer, but have you found that either of those have led into your, let's say, group coaching program?
Speaker 2:Not yet Not yet Okay, and that's okay. It's one of those things to kind of keep in mind. Are you open that through our conversation today? If I notice that maybe there's a topic there that could be a great resource to pair with 100%, would you? Yeah, okay, cool, I.
Speaker 2:It's kind of hard when we there's a lot of us right that our business coaches or sales coaches or messaging coaches what you said of being like a really bad on I'm doing those things yourself yeah, same, we all do that with. It's a lot of it too is right because it's so ingrained in how we operate. It's different than teaching it and learning something for the same time. I like the parallel I always use is I do not drive like I did when I was 15 and a half and learned how to drive Right when you put your hands on the wheels at 10 and 2 or whatever they tell you, when you check the rearview mirror every 10 seconds or all those types of things that you do on autopilot, you do that to learn how to drive. But now that we're adults, I mean we can argue around the safety of our driving skills, but the idea is you don't think about it right, it's second nature, but you would be able to teach that without the the process from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I find it's hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle and, like I can do for you what you're gonna do for me, because I can see it in you but I can't see it in myself.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is the very. This is why we both have jobs, right? Okay, so what's fun with this is, even though some of the questions I'm gonna ask you you're gonna laugh for you're like I do this all the time it's still interesting to go through for yourself and to have that clear, the clear moment. Okay, so what I? I heard you say we want to drive more people to your podcast. We want to grow your list to come, become more clients. Right, so be really intentional, growing that for one-on-one, those high ticket clients. I'm also the group coaching program, and then you also maybe you do affiliate stuff.
Speaker 1:I have Dabbled in it, but my list is very, very small.
Speaker 2:So you know, yes, but so getting people into your world, priming them for a client match, fit, whatever type of program that is and potentially offers down the road, okay, I think that's great. And then the third thing that you had said is that you know you have a damn good message and you want to make an impact. So I would it be fair to say that you would like to be one of those industry people that people look up to and are inspired by, as you know, barfie, is that makes me feel yes?
Speaker 1:The answer is yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird to say, I want to be a big deal, I want to be known yeah, it is super weird to say, but also it's a required thing to own if you do want people looking at you as an industry at the wordy, and you have an obligation, in my opinion, to Claim that role if you truly want to make a bigger impact. So are you up for girl?
Speaker 1:Yeah, just you saying like that, I have an obligation to do it. Like that is a great shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's because otherwise the people that need to hear your message they're not gonna do it right. And also, if you don't act as if you are a big deal, you are definitely gonna play smaller, right. You're gonna tell smaller stories, you're gonna go straight to the how-to in the tips and you're not gonna take up space on those podcasts. You're gonna speak quickly and like get in and get out and be a little bit more transactional, even if it's not your intention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're bang on right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've done this before, okay, so let's let's talk about a couple things. So when I, when I think about topics, I think a lot of people are so focused on how do I get the right topic, how do I get the perfect topic and I my audience will know I say this all the time there is no right, there is no perfect. It's honestly what we're excited about and is it aligned to our goals in our audience. So I look at a couple different things for us to figure out like a sweet spot with topic ranges. I'm less worried about you developing that one Talk, although I'm a big fan of a signature talk hell, it's my core program on what I teach. But what I find for the majority people I work with is the signature talk isn't really developed until we vetted out some damn good topics and the people tell us holy shit, that's your signature. So I like to look.
Speaker 2:There's kind of three lenses that we're gonna dive into. We're gonna talk about the person and the problem Right, which you know that like the back of your hand, but we're gonna articulate a little differently today. We're gonna talk about, um, two things about you. One is your unique perspective. So I'm gonna ask you a series of questions to dive into some stories today. And then the third we're gonna talk about is this might be a little weird, but your passion, like what fires you up that you would get a little riled up and on some side Tangents should it come up like we have to have that fire, that fire piece of the thing that makes you really passionate. It might not be the topic that is most sexy or what your audience is like, spot on to their problem, but that fire, that passion, that's the magnetic quality where audiences will literally tell you I, I never thought this was a big deal, but you're so fired up about it I'm now to okay, and sometimes we have to do that for our audience.
Speaker 2:So, passion problem in person and perspective. Those are the three. Imagine this like a Venn diagram. Those are the three things we're gonna play with to figure out your sweet spot topic here in the middle, and I, like I said, I think there's gonna be a couple of them that we can pull from. Okay, so talk to us a little bit about us, me and my groupies. In the background, the person that you serve you mentioned that a little bit with like thresholds of the revenue in their business. But talk about them. But more importantly I want to know what are they like, the big problems that they're having when you kind of cross into their world.
Speaker 1:So I think that the biggest problem that I'm serving, with the couple of different audiences that I serve, is that they're a bottleneck in their business. They're not creating or writing the copy that they need to. For the 7 Plus Figure business owner it's because they have so many business obligations and they just can't get to all the volume of copy that they need to write. But they're not willing to release the reins of that and delegate it because they don't know how to explain how to write in my voice or they don't know how to trust that other people will be able to write in their voice. So I can help them either with creating a brand voice guide for them to help them articulate that, or I can actually take that copy right off their plate so that they are no longer that bottleneck.
Speaker 1:So the other group that I serve are women in business who are struggling to write because we get caught up in our heads, we don't know what to say, we don't know how to say it, we overthink, we procrastinate, install and then we don't get our message out there. So I help women find out how to use their voice and share it through their writing and to ask for the sale, because women have such a hard time asking for that sale, and so I can give you the language that doesn't feel skeezy. I can give you the tools so that you can prep and prime your audience so that they're ready to receive that sale, and mostly I just help people create momentum and consistency so they are getting their message out there, okay that's great.
Speaker 2:So this is no surprise, right, as a copywriter, you know your person, you know their problem. This is typically the thing that is best vetted For anyone listening kind of back to this later. What I find with most business owners, I would be curious for you too, kim. Most business owners, they have a very hard time articulating the problems of their audience. So this one here we're going to breeze over, because you know this really well. However, it is typically not so easy to find out what they think the problem is versus the true problem. There's a dance within that.
Speaker 2:We're not going to get into that today, but if I've added, here's the thing that I want to point out around your problem and you know this you have two different people. So one of the things that you'll want to make sure that you're super clear on is when you create your topics. We can do it in one of two ways. You can create your topic kind of titles and descriptions to target that specific person, so that you would be like, for example, let's say, you're going to be focused more on the multi-six to seven figure person. The volume of podcasts or guest speaking opportunities are going to be fewer for that kind of business owner but guest speaking, let's say in a mastermind or in a group coaching program. You're going to have a high return on clients from it, so it would probably behoove you to have a topic really targeted for them, but that's probably not going to be to the masses on a podcast.
Speaker 2:Now the nuance would be is if we find a couple of topics that transcend both, you can customize the interview or the talk for those two different lenses because they are very different problems. So for you we can approach a couple of different ways. Let's add in the passion and perspective, but that just for you. You already know this customizing your message to the problem. But what we bring in from your stories and your client examples, that'll help really shape that. Let's get in. I'm just curious on your perspective. Let's dive into a few of your stories. So let's lean into your group coaching program. Let's lean into that audience, right? Because when I think podcasts, would you agree that's more of the well, I guess not. I mean, maybe it depends. Do you have one of the two audiences that you prefer to speak to primarily?
Speaker 1:I think most of the content that I create is for that mid-tier woman like me who is just trying to get out of her own way and get the copy out there, and I would just like it to be easier to welcome more people in and sell them into my program. I don't create any copy geared up that higher tier audience. It's primarily referral based. But I like to have some content so that it builds no like and trust. So when they're checking me out they're like OK, she's legit.
Speaker 2:Yep, ok this. I'm glad we went down this road, because I think this is really a trap. I think that a lot of service providers who are branching into courses or coaching are more scalable options. This is where they face, a lot of times, people who have done the higher end one on one, or maybe not even high end, right. Maybe they needed to raise their prices, but they all their copy and everything is written in the high end person, which is a different problem than what we're talking about. And what we want to think about is if you're using visibility. Visibility, you can do it for one of two things You're either using visibility to skyrocket your authority or, and you're using it to grow your audience, and I think a lot of people are like I wanted to do everything, but what I forced people to say is what is the one singular business objective that you are going to measure your success off of? And for you, I think it would be audience growth slash to book more of the scalable clients. Is that true? 100%, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm maxing on one to ones. I need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you don't need any more cloud. You don't need any more leads, because you're getting them off of referrals, as you said. It's always nice to have the cloud that I have those things, but you're not struggling to get clients right now, so we're not going to build a visibility strategy to go after those people. Those are going to come to you organically and you can customize anything for it. So what we have to do is keep our eyes on the paper of how do I speak to that larger general audience that are more of a fit for my program than I'm scaling Perfect. So let's think about stories in your experience. What has shaped your perspective? You say that you are like gangbusters at helping people, like nail their voice. You do that for others, but I want you to focus on you teaching others to get over that hump and get started with writing. What are some of the experiences that you've had that have shaped how you do that?
Speaker 1:So I'm glad you asked me to think of this before we came on today. And I would say I come from a scientific background, so I have a degree in environmental science and communications and I always saw a huge problem with we're never going to solve this environmental crisis unless we can quote, unquote, dumb it down, make it more digestible and understandable for people, because if people don't understand it, they won't connect to it. If they don't connect to it, they won't solve it. So that is like my core belief is helping people take action by giving them a simple message. So that's sort of one element of it.
Speaker 1:I also have worked in the philanthropic sector for a number of decades, so that socially minded, mission driven purpose and passion is really important to me and you can't live your mission if you can't get your message out. And then along the way I've had jobs where I was a park interpreter, where I had to communicate these really complicated, complex environmental issues. But I dressed up, I did musicals, I created entertaining skits like little edutainment is what we called it but sang and danced and made the learning of this complicated topic super digestible and easy to understand. And I've been able to translate that into copywriting and that's often a piece of feedback that I get all the time is that, wow, you really teach this in a way that is so simple and makes it easy to understand.
Speaker 2:Yes, ok, I love that. Have you talked about these experiences before with your audience?
Speaker 1:I mean in close knit little workshops. Yes, it's like a throwaway sentence in my podcast intro, but no, I've never really done a full episode.
Speaker 2:Prior to me asking the question. That was part of the homework of asking this question around what experiences had you considered or connected the dots on this before I?
Speaker 1:mean yes, yes, but not to the point where I actually talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, ok, I'm going to use a little side tangent case study piece right here. Are you familiar with Jerisha Hawke? Yeah, ok, if you all don't know, click on her Instagram. Jerisha Hawke, she's an awesome teaching people how to create more scalable high ticket group coaching programs. I can't remember where I first heard her speak, but it was on a podcast years ago. The reason why I bring this up part of her perspective that she brings. She talks about curriculum and the power of curriculum and having a clear curriculum. I'm going to say this word seven times because that is one of her core words, core beliefs that people must understand in order for her program to make sense. But she talks about on podcast her experiences as an engineer, how she started as an engineer. You came your head nodding ferociously. You see where.
Speaker 1:I'm going here.
Speaker 2:Having that little credibility piece that I don't think she even worked as an engineer very long but just dropping that she had that experience instantly builds confidence as an audience going holy shit, she was in I don't know what kind of engineering, I don't even remember.
Speaker 2:But honestly, it doesn't remember, it doesn't matter because I remember that about her, which ties to one of her core elements, which is curriculum structure. So for you, paralleling what you just told me, when you actually did a really great job, good job of you thinking about this in advance since the Sinclair putting this into three points, but your scientific background, that piece of communication and whether it's an environmental piece, give or take, you just add that in. But that piece around scientific background with communication, people find copywriting difficult. People know that there is some kind of science behind it, but they don't want to learn it and they feel like if I don't learn it, I can't be successful. You bring it in and that is how your brain is wired and you also have the gift to simplify it. That takes a huge weight off for me as a listener. So you weaving that in ooh, that's really powerful.
Speaker 2:Is it your lead topic? Maybe, maybe not, but that is a key talking point that really could serve you in that sticky factor of building trust with your person, especially you as a teacher. Yeah, love it. Yeah, ok, philanthropic, social. That hit on what you said, that you're here to make an impact and a mission in the world. But you also know so as your person. Remember, at the top of our conversation, how I told you you had an obligation to step in the spotlight. Yes, could you see yourself saying the similar something to?
Speaker 1:your person. Well, I say it all the time on my Tuesday mornings in my group coaching program. So yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that piece there. I find this works really well for me. My background like my big start of speaking it came from nonprofits and I have the story of the nonprofit. My family and I found it around my mom. I don't tell it all the time but a lot of times when I'm guest speaking I will bring that in because it connects me to my audience.
Speaker 2:On that service lead piece, I have a phrase that I use all the time. Some people are drawn to the spotlight, others are called into it. That is my give you chill goosey bump's face. But that is what separates me from what people would call the bro marketer, speaker coaches, who are more scripted. I'm here to help people get their message that's on their heart out in the world and make money to read. It Separates you have a very similar thing. So that philanthropic piece we got to find a story within that that could really help paint that picture, because part of your job on these podcasts is to make people feel really good and muster up that sense of service. I'm very curious around this edgy edgainment piece. There's probably going to be something within that, but I would imagine there's things that we can pull from. But you definitely have. Well, obviously you have great perspective to bring. Is there anything that you teach on in particular that you feel like could really dial in one of these elements and pair it with the primary problem your person has?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think the big discovery that I made when I came into this work was that these copywriting formulas exist, the frameworks that are used in direct response copywriting and when I was a fundraiser, I knew that there had to be a formula for writing this ask letter, but I could never find it. And then, when I switched over into online business, it was like, oh, here's what I've been looking for all along these recipes, these copywriting formulas, and now I'm thinking of the science of copywriting, the chemical formula. It's all coming together for me right now, but just how to put together a persuasive argument, but layering over at your voice so that it doesn't sound cheesy and sleazy, because it's grounded in your personality, your voice and your words. But it's that. It was the discovering the copywriting formulas that just was like oh, everything is so much easier once you know all this.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so that, okay. I'll just be fully transparent and a little vulnerable here. That is the thing that intimidates me the most is I know there are copywriting formulas. Now I will say, caveat here. I'm a manifestor by human design. So part of being a manifestor is I oftentimes can articulate like why I do what I do, or like even how it's happening. It's on autopilot. I have to go back and study it to be able to teach it.
Speaker 2:I've gotten very good at that, but formulas freak me out. I know I need them, but they freak me out because, as someone who is a very external processor, as someone who is naturally good at speaking, I've worked my ass off for it. But I am naturally good at speaking Because, give me the like, all the sudden I'm awkward and I don't know what to do and I find myself like a snake wrapping around me, choking the life out of me. It's very hard for me to create anything with that structure, but I know that structure is necessary to get the results I'm after in the scope of copying right. So I wonder, even though I have some very unique things that make me super weird and special, I don't think that problem is just me. I would imagine a lot of people struggle that they want the structure, but they feel choked by the structure. Sure, is that something that you've discovered?
Speaker 1:No, but I can see it as you're explaining it to me, I think, because a lot of the people who I work with they don't even know where to start writing, they don't even know how to get that message out yet, and so coming up with what to say is the problem. And when they can look at this formula, it actually gives them a lot of soothes and they're like, okay, just going to start attention, interest, desire, action, and then you rework it and stuff. But as I'm a manifesting generator, so I hear what you're saying and I do have some other clients who they couldn't do this work either because of that formulaic structure. So I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's a nuanced difference too right, Between your two categories and people you're so focused on, right Is I probably wouldn't be in that in the more of the mass thing I'd probably be in the latter category of the person wanting to hire it out. Okay, so with that point, is one of your main messaging points when you think about guest speaking is the idea of the formula, the science. Is that a big part of what you typically talk about when you are on podcasts or when you are guest speaking? I think to date, I have.
Speaker 1:I have used that Like what are the formulas that can help you write faster? How do you reduce overwhelm when you're writing? Well, it's by using these copywriting formulas. So that's what I have kind of done, but I think that's also where I haven't been able to find my real differentiation and that passion that you talked about before.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I'm curious, hello scientific science degree in environmental communication. Right, yeah, of maybe a borrowed industry reference and maybe a metaphor or analogy to kind of bring it over. But I would be curious when you, when you, think about what's in your group coaching program, what are some of the types of formulas that you use or types of things? Like you teach sales pages? Do you teach newsletter Like? What kinds of copywriting are you teaching? Is there a category? I'm going somewhere with this, so word vomit on me for a second.
Speaker 1:So I, the primary goal is on sales copy, because I want women to ask for the sale and to ask for through writing, but it also translate into speaking as well, and then so we focus on sales pages, social copy that's going to have a conversion element to it, emails that are sales emails, but also the nurture emails that help keep that prospect really warm and primed and ready for when you are ready to launch. So it's, it's really comes from a sales perspective.
Speaker 2:Okay, and with your. I would imagine in your program you have like a signature method that you walk people through, or is there a process? Or give me a little bit more around, either your framework or you don't have to teach it, right, but tell me what you use to teach more effective sales through those platforms.
Speaker 1:So it's diving into your voice of customer, is understanding your voice. It is layering over top of it like that sales copy formula. So it's kind of. Those are the three areas, it's the research, it's the voice and personality and then the words.
Speaker 2:It's okay if the answer to this is no, but do you have like a method or a framework that you reference is the backbone of your program.
Speaker 1:I mean, I call it the joy of copy method, but it's not really like I don't have a diagram, it's not, it's just kind of loosey goosey.
Speaker 2:But I don't have a diagram. Okay, so in that method, does it incorporate those things of like, layering your customer data, your voice and then the sales copy formula? Yeah, okay, great. Where I'm getting at here is when you think of whatever topic you land on, or topics you land on, of you knowing for lack of a better term, I call this your greatest hits of knowing, like, think about like an album. You're going to have a variety of things that you talk about over the decades. You're in business, but what we really want to do is nail it down.
Speaker 2:Regardless of what stage we're on, what podcast we're on, we need to know what our greatest hits are.
Speaker 2:Because we want to, we want to program the script of what other people say about us.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, we want to write the script of how other people talk about us, and what happens is a lot of times when people do guesting is we start talking about all these different things and then we're surprised when people aren't showing up or signing up or talking about us. We want to be remembered, we want to be recognized, we want to be referred, and the way we do that is nailing in the language we use on repeat. So for you, I want you to like look at that kind of framework without a graphic and I want you to ask yourself what would it take for me to dial this in and own and be excited talking about it? Yeah, does that mean you need to do a full thing about it? But for you to feel excited, sharing your joy of copy, whatever, whatever you call it right, but because we want to be, you need to hype that up, otherwise it's not hyped right. So, going back to my reference with Jerisha, I said curriculum like a bajillion times that click for you of she is known for curriculum.
Speaker 1:Well, I knew exactly where you were going. When you brought her up, I was like oh, I know where this is going because I know that that's what she talks about.
Speaker 2:Yep, that is for sure a front runner on her greatest hits. Now, whether or not she's intentional with that, I would imagine by now she's intentional with it. But we need to write the script for what we want to be known for. So, circling back for it, you said all right, the science background, the kind of that communication piece, and having the formulas. We've talked about the problem, we've talked about perspective.
Speaker 2:But the question being is are you like geeked out, excited about talking about those kinds of things around bringing formulas to life, distilling their nerves or apprehensions, around copywriting through formulas? Are you excited about that? I mean I am, yep, yes, yes, pat, yes, I am, yeah, yeah, okay. So that's like the gut check right, as we could talk a lot of other things. But if you're not geeked out, excited for it, I mean other people will say, yes, give me the formula, but they're not going to be like enthralled, excited about the formula. But if you are, that's what matters, okay, okay. So I think we can run with that type of thing. Let's think about another couple of things. I want to write a look at some of your ideas. Do you mind if I read a few of these out loud?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure In your talk, I asked Kim to come up with a couple different ideas of topics. Are these ones that you have presented before, or was this a brain dump of ideas? This is the one in my one sheet that you're looking at.
Speaker 1:Is that? Yeah, so no, I haven't presented all of these, definitely like the five tips to make your copy more readable, the Hello Framework for writing about pages and, yeah, those copywriting formula stuff I have all pitched and got on and got off and want, want. So I would also love to share a bit more of my story or my journey to how I became a copywriter. Yeah, so I'm just going to stop there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, these are good. I'm going to read a couple of these. So, as you mentioned, five top tips to make your copy more readable I think everyone has one of these in them. These are really great for like. If you're doing like a guest blog or or like a guest post inside someone's group, those could be really great.
Speaker 2:I, in my opinion, you have way more to offer on podcasts than this as the lead topic. I think this is completely undervaluing and it's literally putting you in the category of a C by the copywriters. So I'm going to tell you no, you're not allowed to leave with this. Now what I will say? You know how. Of course, you're going to know this because you're a copywriter. But when someone writes an episode description and they put the little teasers of what's coming, I would be okay with one of the teasers being and the top five tips to get more whatever from blah, blah, blah, Like. That for sure could be a like hook within the topic. But this, Kim, you are bigger than a five tips topic. So no, Christ, that went out. Okay.
Speaker 2:Now the second topic that you wrote down was find your copy voice, how to write in a way that sounds like you. Okay, let's gut check this idea into our three lenses. It brings in, for sure, the problem your people have right, If your main group of people were after, they're having a hard time getting their voice into words, getting started with it, getting things out consistently. So the finding their voice, how to write in a way that sounds like you, that fits. The second thing is does this bring in a unique perspective of you? So think about your rolodex of history. Do you have unique stories, unique perspectives around the importance of voice and the importance of finding your own voice and how you've helped people find their voice.
Speaker 1:I believe I do. I have a background as a singer and a performer, so I have a musically trained ear, which I think is why I can right like someone else with very little effort. And then I've reverse engineered how to do that so I can.
Speaker 2:Okay, beautiful. So do you see how we do that? We double check. Yes, it's a relevant problem to the group you're after, not just your height to the group, but the other group we're after. We've double check that. Okay, now you have some stories you could pull from which your homework assignment is going to actually get those stories out, so you can say them clearly, sinkly and connect it to a topic. The third piece are you super jazzed at, passionate about the voice, the copy voice or unique voice this time?
Speaker 1:I think that like amplifying your voice, sharing your voice and feeling confident that you're writing, in a way, with personality, because I know that that's a real sticky point for a lot of women. So, yes, the answer is yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay. So I'm going to say highlight this. This is an approved topic. I'm going to encourage you to think about the title of this topic you copy reading brain to specify this a little bit, but here's my instruction for you on this topic.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go back to your three objectives. Your objectives were number one more podcast listeners. Number two grow your revenue through clients. And number three clients meaning group coaching program. We're going to lean into that. And number three best to create the impact. This one here you can hit all three, but I want you to lean into the third, that third, around that impact.
Speaker 2:This topic here is where you get to get on your soapbox a bit and really ramp up that, the obligation to use your voice. So this one's more of a. Yes, we're going to talk about the how to find your voice, have maybe some tips, some techniques, some pieces, but your lead in is this is a you getting them jazzed up to like summon the will to do it. Okay, right, so this is almost like your motivational, like you earned your spot, like I did with you. You take up space, right. Yep, that's this topic for you. I'm on board with that. So in your mind, categorically, you're going to have like this is my feel good, get riled up, share some stories, but I want people leaving like fired up. We're sure the how to those pieces they're going to learn more. Maybe you have the freebie right. Your freebie of your voice guide could work with that Right the details they can get from the guide and you can tease them a bit. But that that topic is more about taking up space and their duty to need to share, love it.
Speaker 1:How does that feel? Good Cause, I was like, how do I, how do I even begin with this? But you've, you've really made it concrete for me. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:What I like to look at is I use a lot of metaphors, as you're gauging for me I like to think about like a spotlight, where we look at a topic and then we determine where are we going to shine the light on this topic and where most people, when they would see this, is. I'm going to read it again Find your voice, how to write in a way that sounds like you. Where the light is shown is on the teacher. Let me give you the tips, let me give you the tactics. Let me give you the list. Let me teach you how to do it.
Speaker 2:I am if you're all just listening to this, I'm pretending like I'm holding a spotlight and I'm shifting it here. I'm going to turn it to the left versus to the right, and the left is why does this matter? I don't care about the how, I don't even care about the what. Right now, I want to know why does this matter? And that's where the spotlight is going to stand for you on this topic. Great yeah. And how you make the opt-ins go fiery crazy on this one is you make the opt-in the detail right. Give them the framework, give them a system, give them a measurement, give them something that's going to help them take action on this. Now that you got fired up, I definitely see that this one can have your storytelling in it for sure. Is there any stories that come to mind for you around this topic? Around voice?
Speaker 1:I nothing concrete that is coming to mind. Well, I mean just the fact that, like I'm so tired of seeing panels of white dudes speaking and mansplaining at me and I'm a Gen Xer, I am sandwiched and I am craving to hear people with my experience, and so that's really sort of like. My submission is to, like, amplify the voices of Gen Xers and help them take the stage. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, just side note, just the fact that you just hit on that Gen X piece with voices I don't hear anyone talking about that, so that write that down. That's a unique perspective. Who's talking about? Well, side note, nate, I can't remember his name. He's a comedian, I started. I found him on my TikTok or something. He's hilarious, but he is a Cusper, which is, I know. Husband and I are too like we're right there the elder millennials.
Speaker 2:My husband was not that for himself as that right. He's like I was born in 81. I am not a millennial.
Speaker 2:I'm like typically you are but like in that year, anyways, nate, he had this whole bit around how he's like in the middle and he did this whole like funny thing around the different generations but this forgotten piece, anyways, generation things. A lot of people give a lot of hype around millennials and Gen Z and then boomers, but there is a whole room to play. You don't have to do a whole thing around this. I don't think this is a topic, but I definitely think this would be a little hot bullet point when somebody like talked about why either Gen X or the Cuspers are overlooked but have the most to offer in different perspective.
Speaker 1:I did record a podcast episode about like Gen X women and why we need to hear more, and I recorded a year ago and it is like one of the most popular episodes that.
Speaker 2:I have Okay, well, that should tell you something. So maybe it actually. Maybe it is a topic. Which side note, I think that would be a fun topic. I would have you come back on the show and actually talk about that specifically because a lot of my audience right, they're not super young, they're also wouldn't classify themselves as, like, super old, although I feel pretty old. That in like, I think that has a piece of it. So, echoing side note, we're gonna go off on a tangent here, because you brought it up Twofold.
Speaker 2:You said that your number one objective was to drive more podcast listeners. What I want you doing is you, if you, after a call today, as you're really getting into these topics, I want you to say what podcast episodes do I have that to relate to this story or this teaching point, so that way you can easily slip in. Oh, yeah, I get all fired up about this. In fact, one of my number one episodes is all about this Shoot me a DM on Instagram and I'll send you the direct link. Got it, love it. Do that all the time.
Speaker 2:You can use many chat If you wanna set up an automation to it. I'm not fancy like that yet, so I usually I wanna have conversations with people who hear me on podcasts, so I'm sometimes will do a like a secret podcast playlist for people who listen to me on a specific podcast. I'll say, hey, I'm gonna curate a list of episodes that perfectly pair with what we talked about today. Shoot me a DM on Instagram and then boom, you're now in conversation with them. And two, you now get them onto your show. Yeah, love it.
Speaker 1:And I am low tech as well, Like the simpler that I have, so I'm just like hello.
Speaker 2:I can answer you, it's fine.
Speaker 1:I don't have to use the phone?
Speaker 2:No, exactly, so you can try that piece. But the other thing that you said when you light bulb click that that's one of your top episodes. That's another way for you to look at is go through your episode history and say what other topics are people talking about, and then run through those same three filters we talked about today. Love it, that's great. Okay, so we so far have two topics for you. We have something around the science slash formula. We need to come up with what the angle is around that, so I'm gonna circle back to that in a second. We know that copy voice one, that one is for sure. Let me read a couple of these other ones. You had me at hello. Framework for writing about pages. Tell me a little bit more about this.
Speaker 1:So this is. The about page is one of the hardest pieces of writing for most of us, and yet it is the second most visited page on your website, and so I have created a formula, my own recipe, for how to organize the information on that page. So it's a very tactical training. It's more like a workshop probably. I have done it as a podcast guest episode, but it was difficult to walk through the formula.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I would do is I think that actually is a very specific problem, a very sexy problem and also hell of a creative framework on the hello framework for an about page, because the fundamental problem we're solving is why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves? Write that down. That is the title of it. Why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves?
Speaker 2:I have this in my little repertoire. We do it in different ways. You can steal it, run with it, but that piece I'm gonna borrow exactly what I said before, with the spotlight metaphor. On this, right now, when you're approaching as a training, you're shining the light on the technicalities in the framework, I want you to move the spotlight over and say for podcast interviews, we're gonna talk more about why this is so damn hard, but why it's important to master it. And then, if they want to, you can give them a couple tips and topics, but then topics words are so hard to tactics and then you can have a resource that goes into your one page Hello Formula for writing so smart.
Speaker 1:That would be a killer off Love it.
Speaker 2:I'm in. Okay, so we know for sure, the voice one is awesome, the Hello Framework, for sure. Why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves? Okay, I'm gonna read this one the power of copywriting formulas to cut down time and increase creativity in your writing. Okay, so this one hits on where we wanna go, but we're gonna go a different angle. So talk to me a little bit, now that we've been rambling now for 40 something minutes. How, now that we've done this to voice and we've done this to the about page piece, where's your brain at when you think about what you could bring to the industry around formulas or the power of formulaic copywriting?
Speaker 1:Well, I think this is where that sort of science and simplification comes in. But to be like now that we've just, like I've, gotten so excited about the voice and why it's so hard to talk about ourselves like this feels a little bit more want, want.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the passion. Did the passion still go down on it? Yeah, because your passion skyrocketed on those other two. I mean, just visually, you lit up your whole body language change, your tone of voice change. When you got excited about those two, you just saw the possibilities in your eyes. Yeah, okay. So that tells you all those rating scales.
Speaker 2:I think the formula one is definitely one of your greatest hits, but in terms of you being fired up to do a podcast tour, you know where you need to lean. Now here's the cool part is, these are your greatest hits voice we're talking about, like how to talk about yourself when it's awkward to talk about yourself and the power of formulas. Those are your greatest hits. So even when you're talking about voice, you could do a nod to both those other ones the power of formulas, the oversimplification, like however you wanna phrase that. That should be a talking point on both of them. Then you can kind of weave that in.
Speaker 2:But, girl, I think you have three topics there. I think I do, yeah. So the question would be is we need to find something around the formulas to be as sexy and as exciting as the other two? So my gut is telling me it's less about the formula and maybe we need to lean into the problem a little bit more. It's that when the formula is more of the how to, but what's the lead problem? We want this to really address.
Speaker 1:It's really that I don't know what to write. I don't know how to write. When I sit down, I just stare at the page and nothing comes out, or I word vomit all over the page, but how do I package that into a sexy title? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's. I don't want to say cure, because that's Marie Forleo's copy cure thing, right, but it is. It's. The solution to this is oversimplification, but writer's block or like writer's diorama, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So maybe not so graphic or maybe graphic, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm good with that, so, but that like it's. So you see where I'm going with that. The topic you can lean into the problem more versus the solution, cause I think once you're on a podcast, you telling your story around your scientific background, but specifically leaning into how your brain leans into how do I simplify this? And you can pull from your experience when you were doing that interpreter edutainment work, right Is, the challenge was how do I take these really complicated problems and simplify them for this group? Cause they have to master it. That's your whole premise for this idea and you got good with that. So when you got into copywriting, you learned, oh, these formulas are this, but they're so confusing to people. Now I make them simple. That is the story that you tell to get people sold on it. But you can start with a that more pressing problem they have. The question is how do we make it sexy? I can figure that out?
Speaker 1:I think no.
Speaker 2:Okay, any other on your list that you want to talk through?
Speaker 1:I mean the next one on the list. There is like this old dogs can learn new tricks. Like I started my business when I was 42. And I know a lot of women in middle age are like I can't start something new and honestly, it was like the best thing I've ever done and I would love to empower more women to do that for themselves, to create that freedom and to leverage that. Okay, I have, I'm gonna interrupt you cause I have.
Speaker 2:I have a. I just had this idea that I hadn't had before. I've been swirling around in my brain for a while, but I couldn't articulate it right until this moment. Okay, side note, we're gonna go on a little side tangent here.
Speaker 2:One of the things as a podcaster myself I get a lot of pitches from people all the time for the show, and last year when I rebranded my show from the Heather Sager show to hint of hustle, I made the conscious decision that I was gonna be very, very choosy around the quote, unquote expert topics, because what I found is people are doing this let me go on a podcast road tour and just regurgitating a version of their webinar on all of these, and it was very, very clear that the number one goal these people had was to get in front of my people so they can sell them, which I say two tiered like coin or two sided coin, which it is what we're doing, right, it's why we do visibility.
Speaker 2:But when other people can sense it a mile away, where it just feels like a one night stand interview, that doesn't feel good to anyone involved. So I made the decision that I wanted to interview business owners and, yeah, tap in a little bit to their expertise, but I wanted to hear more of their stories, and so this brings me to my moment of clarity right here. I'm curious, kim, could we actually organize your guest speaking topics and put them into two lanes? I think I'm gonna make this a thing as far as teaching it.
Speaker 2:You're witnessing a moment right here where I'm envisioning like two columns or like two categories. Category one is like expert topics. Category number two is like I don't know what to call this, but something about like unique experience, or like I don't know what to call this, but like it's more of the experience of being an entrepreneur or more of like the life experiences that are like the backbone of the expertise. You see what I'm saying there, because if I were to get a pitch that, yeah, the expert topics, I honestly usually just breeze by them because most of the time I'm looking for referrals, I wanna know that people legit know what they're talking about, are gonna take care of my people. But if I got a pitch that also had like, when my ears perked up and I was like, ooh, the Gen X Cusper thing, that's interesting, it's not your expert topic but it's like a sidecar topic.
Speaker 2:You see where I'm going with this. Yeah, so I think your Gen X thing, this old dogs can learn new tricks and then this last one you have on here how my annual salary became my monthly salary as a writer. That's an interesting like case study style piece. So I'm actually wondering if you have categorically topics where you have the expert topics. You have more of these like story-based experiences and or even a case study. Okay, that, as a podcaster, that would allow me to go ooh, she's got a case study like example, like that would be interesting on the show. Cool, yeah, it really is. Yeah, I think it is pretty brilliant. I'm going to make this a thing, like you heard him here for the first time. Visibility categories yeah, I love all these topics that you listed here and these are totally story-led, which you said you really want to do a lot more. And it goes to your first strategic goal around impact and reaching more people. Yep.
Speaker 2:I like that, okay, so do you want to run with that? Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:I'm good with that.
Speaker 2:This is where it's like the beautiful part. You're a copywriter so you could put titles to all these things which I suck at the titling part, so maybe we're going to need to collaborate at some point on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you've just really given me the permission to go where I think my heart really wanted to go, and then also the like how to do it and that simple technique of I was very focused on the deliverable and you've helped me to shine the spotlight on the problem or the challenge that people are facing and it's sort of like the core of that story. And then it's the how to. That is sort of like the little bonus piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's why a lot of people have a hard time getting conversions off of their interviews is because when they spend all that time on that teaching it's like well.
Speaker 1:I got what I needed Totally.
Speaker 2:I don't need to download the thing because now my mind is racing with all of these ideas. I don't need more, right, thank you, you've done your job. Versus when you tell these stories and focus on the why, it almost like it gets people like fired up to act and then they were like, well, hold on. I want to make sure I'm doing it right. Let me get the down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no. And just how you articulated to use sort of that Hello Framework for about pages that like I mean, that's, that's now a new lead magnet, or even like a mini offer that I can sell, so yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2:So let's go back and summarize here because we have. So you have three really good topics, plus down this whole category of like case studies, experience perspective. I love that and the great part about those is you don't have to worry about being all like strategic about those. Those can be playing, they can be fun, and I would argue, from the play and fun you're probably going to end up booking clients from it, right, but that gives you space just to have fun, which I think is really important for us as kind of creative entrepreneurs. But those first three the voice, the Hello Framework, and then the formula piece having some kind of download for each of those, I think that would be. I think that would be gold. And then pairing that with what we talked about some kind of Instagram DM, yes, yep, and pairing it to podcast list.
Speaker 2:And again, you don't have to be fancy. I let me just be very clear. I did not have a private podcast playlist. I had a. What we did is we used BuzzFrow for a podcast and I had my VA. We can create tags in BuzzFrout and we tagged, I think like Top Show or like Storytel. We created a couple of tags based around my speaking topics. And then what we just did is we pulled a podcast player out of BuzzFrout with just that tag, put it on a landing page there is no opt-in and then when people DM me, I just send them the private link to that page and now I have a conversation. I love it. It's not fancy.
Speaker 1:I mean that might sound fancy, but like it's not all about like, give me your name and your email, it's about carrying the conversation forth and I think that personal connection and how people connect with you when they hear your voice and sense your personality, like that's so much better than some kind of like quick sell, upsell, squeeze page funnel that you know other people are promoting. I really love that sort of personal connection, so that really resonates with me Same same girl.
Speaker 2:I feel the same with it. All right, we. I feel like they covered a lot of gravity. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I feel like I need to lay down and just like metabolize all of this amazing, tremendous genius that you've just shared with me. So I really appreciated, heather, thank you.
Speaker 2:Of course, I'm excited to see you be wrong with it. If you had to sum up your experience on our call today in just a couple of words, how would you? How are you feeling right?
Speaker 1:now I am feeling energized about the possibility, and it's not it's not about like, what it's gonna do for me, but it's how I'm gonna be able to help more people. And it's that, that obligation piece, like I'm obligated now, now that you've, like, shown me, you've spotlighted it for me. Now I'm obligated to go down that path and I'm excited about it, for sure.
Speaker 2:I'm excited too. Just like I said mentioned, you're the energy and you shifted when you started getting super excited about the possibilities topics and that, like that's the magnetic quality that really just makes visibility so much more effective. Hey, kim, thank you so much for having this conversation with me on the podcast. Like this was super cool to do live. I've never done this before, so thank you for being the first to do this. I hope that we do this again, both me and you. I hope the jam out again, but also I hope to do more coaching on the show For those like listening, who are like wait hold on. I love these topics. I want to book Kim as a guest on my show or learn more about what you do. Where's the best place for them to connect?
Speaker 1:So I think the best place to connect is at kimkeelcom. You can also find me on the social channels and shoot me a DM. I'm really like again, I'm really high touch, intimate person to person and, of course, if you like, learning tips, strategies and you're wanna know more about, like some of these formulas that I've talked about, my podcast, real Communication, is a very short form, bite size podcast that'll just give you like one formula, one writing prompt, one tip that you can take away, so you'll find that on all the players.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and, of course, we will link to all of that below. But I really hope, like seriously, y'all, if you heard those topics today and want to have Kim on your show or in your audience, definitely reach out and be sure to tell her it came from the show. We made history today, kim, yay, yeah, all right, girl. Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 2:Heather. Well, you made it to the end of the episode, wasn't that so freaking good? I am stoked to see what Kim does with these speaking topics. A really cool thing is, since she's a copywriter, you know she's going to have some epic descriptions and titles for these topics, so I cannot wait to see where she takes it. As I mentioned at the start of this episode, I already had multiple people DM me. Two people say hey, what did she do with you and how can I book you? And that was just off of her Instagram story saying how she fired you was up working with me on this call and how excited she is for her visibility.
Speaker 2:So now that you know what we did together, if you would like to get my brain on your business, to have me go through and coach you and pull the expertise out of your brain and help run through you through a similar exercise they did with Kim today, you have a couple options. My dear, if you would like to work with me one-on-one, I am taking a handful of people this quarter. If you head on over to heathersakercom, go to the work with me page. There'll be a section when you scroll down around how you can book a call with me. It'll be like a strategy call. This is the topic that we can use for your strategy call. So it'd be a visibility strategy call where we'll dial in your speaking topics. So you can learn more about that at heathersakercom, go to my work with me page and you can get the latest menu of how we can work together. Or, if you'd like to get started on this on your own, of course, y'all know I have a resource to help you get your guest speaking topics nailed down. So if you head on over to heathersakercom forward slash topic, you will find my latest free resource where I help you nail in your guest speaking topics.
Speaker 2:So go ahead and grab that heathersakercom forward slash topic. Grab that. Get started on getting your perspective, your angle around how you're gonna take the world by storm this year. Reach more people, get your stories out and reach more the person that you're meant to help. I hope you enjoyed this one and I will see you on the next episode. Thanks for listening to another episode of the hint of hustle podcast. Because those big dreams you're chasing, they require the best version of you, and if those goals include expanding your audience, establishing your industry credibility and selling your premium price programs. The best way to tackle this is through speaking. Your voice is your best brand asset and we'll teach you how to use it as a marketing tool. Head on over to the speakercocom forward slash, start and I'll see you there.
