Get Visible: Start Before You're Ready with Tarzan Kay

A perk of running your online business is taking zoom calls in your sweats. But those big goals you’ve set aren't going to happen from behind your laptop.

To grow your audience (and your programs), you’ve got to get more eyeballs on your business, which means stepping into the spotlight to get noticed.

But the big question for many entrepreneurs is: when’s the right time to start speaking on podcasts and stages?

The answer? Much sooner than you think.

Joining me in a conversation on visibility and getting started before you feel ready, is my good friend, mentor and client, the legendary Tarzan Kay.

Tarzan shares the story of the first time she ever spoke on a stage. It happened to be Amy Porterfield’s and she was in a line up alongside Jasmine Star and Marie Forleo. Listen in to hear what happened when she stepped off.

Tarzan reminds us that “if you have no audience, you have no business” and generously shares tangible tips and strategies throughout the episode that you can embrace immediately.  Here’s a few gems we’ll cover:

• Visibility is more than just being seen, it’s also who you align yourself with.
• How Tarzan leveraged a team to get systemized with pitching.
• The domino effect once you get on a few podcasts and how it turns leads from cold to warm
• How accessing influencers is easier now than ever through this one simple strategy.
• Reframing the metrics for success with opt ins (hint: quality over quantity) 
• How to skip the fangirl freakout and position yourself as an equal with key influencers you admire.
• Tarzan’s best tips for showing up with confidence on stages

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to Finding Your It Factor- Episode 24. Today you're in for a real treat because I have an amazing guest on the show. You've heard me talk about her many times before. Today, we're talking with the one and only Tarzan Kay. Now you know I've talked about her before. She's a mentor, she's a friend, she's a client. I've been in many of her programs and I am so thrilled for you to hear from Tarzan today on a couple different things. Now we're not diving into what she's known for, which is copy, a launch strategist, a copywriter who teaches women and a few good men how to sell bigger so they can serve better. That is what she does and she's excellent and I will link up to all of her great materials and resources that you can go get that from, but we're not going to talk about that much today. What we're actually gonna talk about are some of the things that Tarzan helped me with when I first started my business and enrolled in her program. Some of the, the beliefs that I had to let go of and I had to adopt for me to start gaining traction in my business. And the most important thing that we're going to talk about today that I want you to hear loud and clear is the concept of start before you're ready. Specifically, we're going to talk about getting more visible in your business long before you think you're ready. So buckle up. It's going to be a great run. Have you ever wondered how some people just seem to have a way with words? They have this spark that lights you up when you're near them, they have the It factor. And while most people think it's something that only a few are born with, I believe that you can find it so it can become your super power to grow your business. It's about you bringing your brand to life by becoming a magnetic communicator in person and on camera, showing up with confidence, authenticity, and inspiration. So are you ready to become magnetic? I thought so. I'm Heather Sager and I'd like to welcome you to Finding Your It Factor

Speaker 3: 2:07

[inaudible]

Speaker 1: 2:19

Welcome back to another episode, friend. I am so thrilled that you chose today this episode to tune it. If you're new here. Hi, I'm Heather Sager. I'm a speaking coach and I help online entrepreneurs clarify their message and develop amazing signature talks that help them grow their audience to their message from live stages and also the virtual buds. And I am so thrilled because today, I mean I already mentioned it a little bit. Tarzan is one of my absolute favorite people and she shows up in person, online, in her private programs, completely authentic, and she's the same person in every one of those avenues. And I, she's just so real and you know me, I'm a big fan of people showing up as they truly are and not putting on a facade and she see epitome of that. She's just so authentic and real. And what I'm most excited about today is for talking about a topic that's very near and dear to me, which is visibility. Getting your face out there to start making some noise and getting known for your message and what you do. And I know when you're first getting started, that can be a little bit of a scary thing. Heck, even when you're even doing it for 10, 15 years, it can still be a scary thing because you're always putting yourself out there to elevate on a bigger platform. So we're going to dive in that today because for me, Tarzan has really exemplified this topic, uh, as she's put herself out there more and more, not only elevating the work that she does, moving from being a service based copywriter to now teaching others how to grow their businesses. She is incredible, her business knowledge on what she's built in her business, her experiences, networking with other businesses. Before we dive in to the episode or to the interview, I did want to share with you if you've been thinking about speaking on stages. If you're like, yes, okay, I'm ready to put myself out there, I really recommend that you get a strategy in place. You don't just say yes randomly to speaking opportunities and hope that they actually turn out to be something worthwhile. They turn into leads or subscribers on your email list, you want to make sure that you actually have a roadmap to get the results that you're after. So I'd like to encourage you to head on over and download. I created a guide for you to help you with this. It's called the entrepreneur's roadmap to speaking on stages, and it's my five steps to getting started, which by the way, even if you already are speaking, this will be super helpful for you to make sure that you're making strategic choices. So it's the five steps to get started so that you can grow your authority and your audience by getting yourself out there speaking on stages, both the physical kind and the virtual kind. So even if you're terrified of public speaking, head on over, get the guide, it's@ heathersager.com/5steps and you can get started taking immediate action towards that bigger goal of getting more visible in 2020. All right, go grab your guide and let's keep going. Here's my interview with Tarzan Kay. All right, well welcome back to another episode. I am super excited about this week because I have another dear friend and mentor joining me. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Tarzan. Hey Heather, I'm the biggest fan of yours too, you know. Well, let's start off on like a good note there. I feel like I just want to say that. Mmm. You know, like you've been in these, you've like, you know, bought stuff from me. I also bought stuff from you and it's been awesome. It's been really good. It always surprises me like, you know, some people are weird about speaking coaches, they'll be like, I have my own speaking coach and Oh man, like it's vastly different what you get from well from you. Yeah, it's awesome. Look at that. Coming right out of the gate, I'd even have to pay you to say that like, technically I did pay you that because I bought so many of your programs, but I still felt that was very authentic and I mean very nice for you to say. I'm super excited for our conversation today. So, so many of my audience members know you as the queen of email, the queen of funnel strategy, the queen of conversion strategy. There's so many different things that you do. And what's funny is what I was thinking about you being on the show. There was one topic that came up so clearly for me of what I want to talk about. And it was a thing that you helped me shift when I was in my first program with you almost a year ago. And that's this idea of getting comfortable, becoming more visible far before you're ready in your business. So that's what we're going to dive into today. But I think before we jump into that, I think probably should address that there might be some people listening that are new to your world that maybe I'm going to bring them to you. So why don't we actually spend a moment, could you clarify for people who you are and what you do? So I'm Tarzan Kay and I am, uh, email is my kingdom and I rule over this kingdom. And so I have a, I do several things in my business, but mostly I sell digital training programs. Uh, the, the most important of which is called Email Stars. And I teach how to like everything that you need to know to be successful with email in the, particularly in the digital core space. But so like all the way from like someone just joined my email list, what do I do now? Okay. Like now I guess I have to send newsletters. What goes in those, how do I send them? And now let's say you're launching a product. Like how do I get people onto my webinar? How do I get them to show up? What do I send to promote my thing and what do I do after they buy? We covered the entire customer journey from the day they buy something from you until, well, really forever. Cause the cycle just keeps going. Yeah. That was the big reason why when I discovered you listening to another podcast last year, I was like, I need that. I don't know the email things. I know I'm supposed to send them. I know there's some funnels, whatever the hell that means, but that's how I entered your world. But I was so shocked when I started working with you just how much more there is to your experience and your knowledge and your insight into online business. And that's what I love so much. So I'm always curious. I know a little bit more about your background because I helped you curate some of your stories that you shared on stage before. But I would love like, I think a lot of people hear from experts online that have these, I dunno, really interesting stories around all the crazy prior experiences they've had and building businesses and your story's really different. So I would love for you maybe to share how you got into this line of work and maybe just sharing the fact that sometimes it's not a straight line. Hmm. Yeah. So, okay. I'm going to try and give you like the, some seriously edited version because this could take an hour. Um, so I, I loosely started by business when I was traveling, been a musician my whole life, went to university for jazz piano. I was like, this is great, but I don't feel dedicated enough to make a career out of this. So then I went to law school and I was like, Oh, this is very wrong. Um, and so I was there after three, it took me three years to figure out that. And then I was like, I was, that was like a real low point. I was like, I gotta, I gotta get the fuck out of here. So then I went to Australia traveling and while I was traveling, I, uh, one of the jobs that I picked up was, um, sort of as a copywriter. I think that's how it was advertised, but really it was more like social media and blog posts. And I was like, okay, writer like copywriter, that sounds like, I mean, I think I'm a good writer. It sounds like that could be good. So I started doing that. I was so bad at it, so terrible. Bless him. The guy who hired me, he kept me on when I came back to Canada and I was like, Oh, cool. Okay. So this, I could do this like freelancing thing. And, uh, I sort of like toyed with freelancing, never really taking it seriously because I was like, you know, single and I had like no attachments and I don't know, I was like, I don't, I don't need, I could defer my student loan payments because I wasn't making any money. And it just was like, you know, more interesting to me to like, I dunno, I was playing music and like go on a poetry slams. I was like doing, you know, I was like being being a 20 something right. Mmm. But then, uh, I met my now partner and, uh, we had a child and when the child was one year old, uh, I was like, okay, I am now. We decided that I would take responsibility, financial responsibility for the family and that I would consider that was when I started my business. So I started as a copywriter and very quickly I niche down to emails and then even further specifically to emails for online course launches. And, um, I did have some really important, um, like important visibility that I did very early in my business. So I saw how important, like, how, how much that would fast track my growth and how much people would see me differently based on where I was showing up. And I experienced it for the first time in the first year of my business. There was this, this, um, email copywriting challenge and you had to like hustle votes and you had to like, you know, you actually had to do writing, but then people would vote for the best email. Anyway,I was like, I think this is going to be really important and I think I can win. So I, you know, I went all in and I did, I won. And that was the first really important, um, bit of visibility for me. And it was through that competition that I met, um, Ry Schwartz, who at the time was writing for Amy Porterfield and he was like, you know, I'm kind of moving on to different things and it's kind of going to be time for me to pass the torch. And I think, um, I think you would be great with Amy. So it took a while for that to materialize. But, um, I did start working as Amy's copywriter and then which side note, I, I now am like working to get like out of the shadow of Amy because I've got like so many incredible clients and students and so many people sent my way. It's been the greatest blessing to have, um, to have like, to have her blessing. Also now I'm like, now I have to actively establish myself as her colleague rather than like, you know, someone she hired that everyone else can hire. But that's a side note. So close parentheses back to that because I have some questions around that thing. Cause I think there is a, there is something to be said around understanding, positioning when you are becoming more visible. And we've talked about that before. So I'm gonna write that down cause I want to come back to that topic. Yeah. And um, yeah, I got some good stuff to share there. So, uh, so now I'm in my second year of business and I'm, I'm just started writing emails for Amy and she does this wonderful annual event for her B schoolers. And, uh, I was like, well, maybe I could speak at that event. And I think, I dunno if I'd pitched her that year, I think I pitched her the next year. So at this point I had really proven myself. I'd done some really good work, like working on her funnel, her funnel for one of her courses she had back then and also writing her weekly emails. And we did a variety of really interesting projects together and we always really liked working with each other. And, uh, I was like, Hey, could I, could I speak at your event? Like I, I'm sure I sent like a really strong pitch, but you know, that's basically what it was like I had never spoken on stage, like out of business. I didn't know this part. I did know part of your story. No, I had never spoken on stage before and uh, this was, so this would have been, I was two and a half years in business when I went to that event and I spoke on stage and I told her after I was like, her whole team was like, Tarzan, that was so amazing. And I was like, Oh yeah, like that was my first time. But I took it so seriously. Like I, uh, I hired a speaking coach and Amy had told me way prior to that how she had hired the speaking coach. So I had just, I just asked her like, who is, who is your guy? And I hired that guy. So like I, I put some money down to make it amazing and I'm so glad I did that because actually that signature talk that we develop together, I have given that talk like at least 10 times on stages, but also like the key, this is why your program and what you're doing is so important. And I don't think people realize this. Mmm. The key things, like the key pieces of that talk that I developed, they like I have talked about those key pieces on podcasts. Like they became very, very foundational in my business and I never even thought that I needed those key principles or anything until I created this talk. So, um, really, really, really important. So I spoke at that event. Side note on that real quick, we're going to go off a lot of tangents. I love the fact that you just brought that up because that's literally the topic for next week's episode is talking about using your signature talk as a platform for repurposing in other areas. So side note, if you're listening like come back next week cause we're going to talk about how you actually build a talk that has legs for other things and so you can, you can beat intentional from the gate that you're going to repurpose it and not have it be a lucky accident. Yeah, totally. I see like any time if you put a real amount of effort to put together a talk that just like that effort that I made like for one thing it paid off so large like I did that talk at Amy's event added. I didn't even, by the way I didn't even have'em like uh, any, any sort of like join my email list or like go to this link to get the slides.I had, I didn't even have that either because it wasn't allowed or because I didn't think about it, whatever. I didn't have it. But, uh, so many of those people found me and, uh, so many of them found me and like, you know, a year or even now, two years later, people will still be like, Oh yeah, I saw you at that event. And I like people, not just random people, but people who buy my stuff, like returning clients like that. So it paid off. Oh and also I did that talk and then I came back and, uh, I came back and delivered it like virtually like sort of as a webinar and I tacked a sales pitch on the end and I had my first ever six figure launch. So that was a great investment. Spending that time. Sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. And it also, um, it also really, uh, started something in terms of visibility because I saw like, wow, this is really important like where people see you, like I saw like, you know, I spoke at Amy's event, um, you know, there was like Jasmine Star and Marie Forleo and then there was Amy Porterfield and then there was Tarzan Kay. Everyone that went to that conference was like, okay, even though I didn't see myself at that time as one of them. Mmm. Everyone else at the event sure did. Like they didn't, they don't know the difference. Um, nobody knows that maybe this one of them may has a hundred times more revenue than me. Like it doesn't matter. Um, so, and I, I actually had noticed that before too like, uh, like, uh, prior to that I had joined a mastermind too with someone that I was like, I just want to be showing up in places next to this person because I know this is going to be really good for my business. Visibility is like, it's important for so many reasons, but it's also like, who are you aligning yourself with? And that's something I have been thinking about almost from day one and it's never failed me. Yeah. It's like I think about when a, I don't know, I don't know if this is true for you, but when I was a kid, I like the comments parents would make it be like, Oh, you don't want to hang out with that crowd or like be around those kids like the troublemakers or whatever. So it's like a, you want to hang out with the people that you want to be like in terms of like aspiring for your business to be like theirs or be the kind of leader that they are, the kind of whatever to their audience. But yeah, you want to be intentional around who you're putting yourself in proximity to because that's what's going to help you get more exposure and also adopt the behaviors and the thinking that those people have. Uhuh, yeah, yeah. Okay. I love that. In your story, you stumbled into visibility with a strategy of knowing you wanted to be around people, but not actively going, I want to be visible like here are the steps to take. And I think the beautiful thing about that is you figured it out and you've like, you've gotten better along and now you're more strategic with it. Like visibility. Yeah, yeah. So last year I got super strategic and I also started using Asana last year. I never used it prior to that. We didn't have, well my, um, you know, Sandor was my VA at thethat time, now she's my business manager. She had teamwork so she used it and I never really got into it though. Anyway, I started using Asana and actually I started doing it to keep track of all the pitching I was doing because I could like pitch 10 people. But well I found like it really helped to have it systematized so that I would, I would send out a pitch and that like I had one hour on, on Fridays, I think it was, I had hour that was like visibility work and on that hour, like I just, I had to take all the guesswork and all of the figuring it out like out of the process cause that made me not do it. So I would just log into this project in Asana and I could see who I had pitched last week, um, who I had to follow up with, who I was going to pitch next. And I still had to do things like find emails and whatever. But I started with my warm audience, so that helped a lot. But I started really systematizing it. And then, um, I took Selena Sue's program, Impacting Millions. I was like already on a roll with visibility and I was like, of course, I, another person that I really wanted to align myself with is Selena Sue. So I took her program and after taking our program, I further systematized this visibility work and brought someone on my team, a contractor, not nowhere near full time, um, to do the pitches for me and we collaborate on them, like she doesn't do everything. And of course it works better if I do it myself, but that's just not like everything works better, many, many, not everything, but many things work better if I do them myself, but I can't. So we brought on Olivia, we got her a team email, like she emails as a team member. She's not like emailing, you want in be half of Tarzan case PR team. So she's on my team and uh, that helped a lot. Like she's, she continued to book podcasts for me. Um, she, you know, sometimes she does follow up with people who kind of know me. So that the, the thing about about pitching and doing visibility is like the more places people see you, the easier it is to get into other places. So once you've been on a couple of podcasts and people will be like, Oh, I heard you on that podcast. Of course, like, Oh, who is this Tarzan? I heard of her. Okay, yes, I will listen. So it's almost like your cold pitches are, are a lot less cold. They're, you know, they're like room temperature. Yeah. I love, I love that you brought that up. It's so last week's episode was all around getting in the right mindset for pitching and thinking about pitching as a strategy of warm versus cold. And one of the things you talked about on your journey like that, that pivotal point for you around working with Amy and like doing your groundwork by being an excellent service provider for her, aligning yourself as somebody who can be valuable to you. That was like a full year before you ever pitched her. Like that's definitely an alignment with one of the things I talked about last week was this idea that don't try to like hurry up and just think that you're going to show up and do all this pitching and it's going to work. Like think about being strategic and laying down the track so that way when the train starts moving, you've already done that groundwork and have the relationships. So things are more warm and therefore more likely to move forward. Oh that is, yeah, so the case, and I know like some of the, some of the podcasts I've been like, Olivia, can you get me on this podcast? And she'll be like, okay, so just follow this guy on Instagram and you should just like be active in his DMs. But the truth is I don't really follow him. So I kind of know that's not going anywhere. But I did. Um, I've been like, really, uh, I really love this, this book that I'm reading, I'm telling everyone to read as called Patriarchy Stress Disorder by Dr.Valerie Rein. I love this book and I've talked about it like I have, I posted on my Instagram story several times and tagged her and I also have been active in her comments,she has been active in my comments. In the meantime I was like, okay, Olivia, I have laid the groundwork, go pitch dr Valerie and um, sure enough, I'm going to go be on her podcast tomorrow. So we're so like influencers have never been more available than they are now. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I sometimes wonder like, how are these people keeping up with their DMS? I don't know how I'm going to do it as my Instagram grows, but they are. And like you could go message Amy Porterfield or I don't know if Marie Forleo's in her DMs but like Stu McLaren is, Tyler McCall is, Jasmine star definitely is uh, they're available, like you can talk to them and you can totally warm them up before you just like jump into the inbox and be like, yo, here's introducing me. Pick me, pick me. I'd love to be on your show. No, exactly. Oh my God, I love, I love that approach but I think it goes into, okay so here I told you I had a great analogy for you around visibility and that the main theme for the show is talking about starting before you're ready. The reason why I think this topic is so important is because especially for people early in their business, like most of it is getting organized, figuring out what you have to offer, figuring out like how the hell the funnels work and just getting all these things in place where it's kind of like heads down. We get really self conscious about what we're doing, whether or not people want it and we're not thinking about getting eyeballs on our business because honestly I think we're a little scared of it. Like we want the leads but we also don't want to know that things aren't working and I just think that's what everybody goes through in their first couple of years as they're starting the business. And what happens is you get to this certain point where you're like, okay, now I'm ready. Like bring on the leads. I've launched my website, I've launched my course and you're like waiting and I think about this idea, it's like, that's like hoping that you get to like, it's like, I don't know what the weather's like where you live. I've been in up in Canada but here in the Pacific Northwest, like let's say I wanted to have a harvest crop in my garden, which by the way, I planted a garden for the first time last year, which was well done. I felt very domestic. But like if I would've waited until like August and September and been like, I want pumpkin's and like got out and planted the pumpkin's. I would have liked been so annoyed because they would have not ever come because I would have missed the window for planting season. Yeah. Nobody's thinking like February, March, April, whenever the hell you're supposed to plant on pumpkin's like you're not thinking about that unless you're looking ahead to what you want to get later down in your business. So I think this idea of like planting a garden and then being patient and knowing that like things don't sprout right out of the gate and you actually have to take care of it and you have to, you have to just think ahead and allow the process to happen. That's how I think about visibility. And I had never considered that before until I started working with you realizing, huh, I have to start acting like I'm visible and acting like to be in a position to be visible far before I ever feel like I have my shit together. And I think so many people listening are probably in that point right now going, I'm not ready to be interviewed on podcasts. I don't have my course done or I'm not like, when I do this then I'll do it. And I just, you helped me so much with that. So I wanted to bring that message today because I think there's a lot of people need to hear it. So I'm curious for you, like I want you to just to riff on that for a moment around this idea of starting before you're ready and maybe how that showed up for you and what you see it in others right now. Yeah, so we have all dealt with this and it's hard to like, I always feel like everyone that says start before you're ready is on the other side wishing they had done certain things sooner. Obviously you can't start everything before you're ready. But it's really true. Like something I see a lot, especially with launches and it's so heartbreaking is like I see people spend so much time like thinking about their course and building their course and like recording all the modules and like just like pouring their heart and soul into it and then they're ready to launch it and they're like, okay, who am I even launching it to? Like, no one. And it's so heartbreaking to see someone with a perfectly good product have a complete flop of a launch, not because it was wrong or they had terrible copy or their messaging was way off or whatever, but just because like the audience is everything. If you have no audience, you have no business. Mmm. So it's just so, so important to focus on growing that audience right from the beginning. And something that I have heard people say is like, I don't think like podcasting doesn't work. Like I tried that or like I had someone actually tell me, one of my early mentors say like, I never bound, like speaking on podcast was like, did anything for my business. Um, and she was really into like guest blogging, which I've never done. To me it sounds way too time consuming. Um, but that's how she grew her business. And anyway, I sort of took that to heart a little bit so I didn't, I didn't get busy on podcasts but really like volume is really important. Like you might hit the total jackpot one time and get like a few hundred people to sign up to your email list, but most of the time you don't. But I would argue like if you do a podcast and you get 10 subscribers, those are 10 people that have spent an hour listening to you, an hour like listening to your opinion on things like those are such, those are like 10 great people. You do not need 100,000 leads in your super fancy big launch. Like, think about when and it's like, one of the core tenants of my teachings or something that I teach is like, we have to start thinking about the leads on our email list as humans, like their people who share the same many of the same hopes and dreams that you do and you don't need 5 million of them. If you do one podcast and you get 10, that's really great. Like particularly in the beginning, go for quality far over volume. And that's why, you know, that first talk that I gave at, uh, Amy's events, there wasn't a huge volume of new subscribers. Maybe there was 50, I dunno, there were 400 people in the room. So if 50 people signed up, it would basically be a miracle. But those are like 50 golden leads. I had been in the room with them. I've seen them face to face. Some of them I shook their hands. Um, so you know, the, and like this is if you are truly, you are truly committed to having a business, whether it's the business you're currently running or maybe you know, who knows what's going to happen, maybe it morphs into something else. But if you are truly committed and you are truly playing the long game, like this is what people who have long game do and people who have short game and want to make$100,000 in the next four days, they shouldn't go on podcasts because it's slow. It's a slow burn. But it's really important because every time you do a podcast, every time you speak on stage, every time you do a guest blog, like a few more people and a few more people and a few more people, but they are so quality. Um, they're so quality in some of those people who will be with you for years. Like you Heather. Yeah, there we go. I think it's so important. It's this hard thing because so many entrepreneurs jumped in because they're go getters and doers and just make stuff happen and that waiting piece, like especially when you see other people, taunting these great success stories and you see all these other big things happening is you want that for yourself. I mean I experienced that this last year. I've been like, hurry up. I want this to go faster and it is interesting when you start getting really comfortable with that. I love how you called it the slow burn, like I'm comfortable making quality connections with people and that might be like having a genuine conversation with someone at a Facebook group. It could be meeting someone at a live event that you're not even speaking up, you just happen to sit next to them or you're sitting in line with them to the bathroom. Like just thinking about getting out there and talking with people and having genuine discussions, like that in itself can drive multiple leads. I saw that happen this last year. But when you just take a little bit of time to put some intention behind it and think about like, huh, if I actually want this to be a slow burning strategy and guide people down and I spend some time on my message, Uhuh, I mean, Holy crap, you could amplify that and it doesn't mean it's going to go faster, but it could make sure that you're not taking so many left turns and like getting caught up in like little, I don't know, dead ends like you can, you can move quicker than if you didn't have an intentional strategy. Yeah, totally. Totally. There's like, there's a real, there's all this marketing is like, it's, can be very damaging when it's all about doing things faster, getting there faster. And there's like this, there's so much pressure and it's like, it's, it almost feels like that's the only way to do it is to make it all happen really, really fast. And, um, I had like a very, very profound realization a couple of weeks ago I did a psychedelic journey. And in, there was a moment where I, I didn't really. This took a left turn on the podcast, ladies and gentlemen, buckle up. So I didn't really think about business. I was thinking about, I was really like getting into the whole purpose of why, why I'm here and why we're all here and, and I thought about marketing for about five seconds cause that's all it took to understand it. And I was like all marketing in this particular online digital course space, the messaging is always the same. It's like I can get you from here way over here so fast and it's not going to be painful. Like that's really what it comes down to is like I'll help you do it faster and it's not going to hurt and that is just not true. And in fact like we are here for the journey. Like that's what it's all about. Like that's what really like you didn't start a business just to make$1 million. Like if I could snap my fingers and give you$1 million, Mmm. You are still going to be you, like all of those in between things like that is what's really important and all of those hard things, like that's where you're going to really understand things about your business and you're going to have a launch that was a complete flop, but you're going to learn so many important things and then you're going to have a big success and it's going to feel so good. And then something might flop again, like the, my, um, my coach, she asked me one time, she was like, okay, so I forget how she put it, but she was like, basically ask me the question. Like, if I could, if I could just get you to the end of the road, if you could just like, I could just snap my fingers in, you're there. Mmm. Would you, would you do it or would you choose to walk the path? She explained this so much more eloquently, but of course I choose to walk the path because that's like, I mean this is like, I mean I, I came to this life to learn things and to have experiences and I realize I have a responsibility as a marketer to like not to tell people I can make the pain go away and I can make it all faster, but to like I'm here to like hold your hand and like be by your side and like I'm going to walk with you on this difficult journey and it's not going to be easy and it's not going to be fast. And I, I, I'm going to bring some more of that into my messaging. Bringing it back to visibility like it's not, it's not a magic button, but it really, it will make such incredible difference in your business when you do this work. You're not going to notice it after your first or second or third podcast interview. You're going to notice it a year from now and then another year from now you're going to be like, how did, how did I ever imagine it could be any different? Oh my gosh, I love that. What a, I mean, what a beautiful gift of your psychedelic journey. But you know, it reminds me of, it didn't really click for me until the last couple of months in my business. I, so I was one of those people in my career like I raced through my twenties, like I raced in my twenties I had this picture in my mind, didn't have any money growing up. Like we didn't have much and I like knew that I didn't want to live without money. So I had this idea in my head that ah, I am going to be some fancy schmancy person at a corporate company making six figures by the time I'm 30 like I don't even know what that meant but this was like this picture I had in my mind at like 19 and I race to the top of the corporate ladder. Like, I didn't care who was in my way, what relationships came and went, like when they were convenient, great. But I just raced because something about that destination felt so important to me. And then I got there by 30 and realized that it was just another version of life shit show. Like it just meant I have drove a fancier car. Like there wasn't anything more special about it. I mean they say, what's that stat like once you hit a certain volume and income? I think it's like$75,000 in income. Like you don't live life really any differently. I dunno. I think I could argue that one a bit. But this idea, what I've realized is now that I've left that life and now I'm building something different, I want to race. Like of course there's milestones that I want to hit, but it's more of the, I don't, I don't even know how to describe it. Like I've gotten really easy like settling into who I am and getting really clear on who I want to spend my time with and I don't freak out about thinking that I'm different than you or I'm different than Amy Porterfield or I'm diff- from whoever else that we list on the name, like the people that we put up on a pedestal as like these big fricking successes. Like none of us are really any different. Like we're all doing our own lives and our own journeys. And I think when you start just looking at people as people and figuring out how you connect with them, like you just enjoy the journey, enjoy where you're at and get excited about where you're going. Yeah, I guess that's my psychedelic journey. There you go. There you go. You got it. So I'm curious, I want to circle back to the thing you mentioned before around this positioning of yourself because I think this is a, I don't want to call it a rookie mistake, but that's the term that's coming out. But I think when people first start going in their business, they do get a little starstruck of the bigger names and get really excited. And I think that can be a little damaging on establishing yourself as an authority in your field. So can you talk a little bit about that, because you had mentioned this positioning yourself with Amy as like a peer and some of the other people that you've worked with, cause you've worked with great names. Can you talk about how that shifted and would you have done anything different? Okay. I don't know that I would do something different, but I do, I do know that the reason why I have been able to connect with, I mean really like people think that I'm connected with so many influencers just because I'm connected with Amy and I mean she's basically the only one. Like I, I've definitely, because of my connection to her and because people do perceive that, then I must know everyone. Like I've totally parlayed that into other opportunities, but really like, Mmm I-, okay. But back to that connection, like it's really important to show up as an equal. And um, I've told this story a million times, so hopefully your listeners are, I'm not sick of hearing it. But the first time she approached me about a project I actually said no and I couldn't believe it like, but I had, you know, I have really clear boundaries. Like I don't work after five o'clock, I don't work weekends. I work a four day a week. Like she contacted me about a project. It was something happening right away and I wasn't available and you know, like at that level and I experienced this myself and I have to be careful with this power is like, you know, you kind of get used to like everybody just saying yes because it's such a fabulous opportunity. Like it's worth it. I see why people just say yes, but I said no. And um, like that was important for both of us. Like, uh, we, you know, we came into that, I also said no because I have such great respect for her and I didn't want to be giving her my after five o'clock self like my after five o'clock self is like, can't do shit. I want to watch Netflix, and eat pizza. Mmm. So that was important and that did, um, like I don't want to, it's not about establishing myself as the alpha. That's like, that's just patriarchy. That's not what it's about. Um, it's just about being on equal footing. And I do think like this is so much more than just being like, you must be confident and show up as an equal because really like the reason I'm able to do that is because I am constantly working on myself. I am doing very deep work. Like that psychedelic journey that I talked about, like that was not fun. That was like not running around in the forest, like having a good time. That was very deep work, very difficult work. Mmm. I'm doing a lot of that work because it's so important and it changes the way I show up in my business. So, you know, I don't want to trivialize like that. You could just like be confident and show up as an equal. Like we do have to do the work on ourselves because it's one thing to, for me to say like, you are no different than James Wedmore, so you should just talk to him like he's your friend. But that's really not like, this one thing to say that, but that's not how you feel. Um, so, you know, we do need to do work around that, around like seeing ourselves differently, but there are some practical things that I can share. Like for example, um, I have a photo shoot coming up with, because we're talking about Amy, here's an example. I have a photo shoot coming up with her and, uh, I'm looking at some of the pictures that I have of us together. And it's very like, for one thing, she's in heels, so she's, and she's naturally much taller than me, so I'm kind of looking up at her and my body language is very like, very like, wait, be my friend, you know? And, uh, so I just had a chat with the photographer this morning and I was like, Oh, like this is really important that in these photos that we come off like that we'd come off as, as, as colleagues, not as like the student and the master. So that is like, your, our branding and all that imagery also does play into this. And that's one thing I did invest really early in beautiful images, a beautiful website and that is definitely really important in establishing yourself as an equal. Like, because we can tell the difference between a DIY brand and one that's like very professionally done. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think, uh, just thinking about let's say your doing a meet and greet with someone that you admire that you're a student of. I mean just being mindful around when you go up to them, not squealing, but just thinking about like how can you show genuine appreciation and give, give the praise that you want to give without, uh, there's an expression used a lot of like fan girling. I don't know that I love that expression, but just that idea of like you, you know what I mean? Around the, like if you can't ever picture yourself in their shoes like you have to think about like if one day you want to be like that, how would you want someone to like compliment you? Or what kind of praise would you want? And I think, I think what goes along the way it's those kinds of interactions is a thoughtful comment around like a specific thing around, Hey, your thing that you did here helped me achieve X. Yeah. I love you so much for la-la-la, like just general feedback, but actually yes, something that meaningfully, that was awkward to say. But you know what I mean, had like a meaningful impact in your life. Oh my gosh, that's such, uh, like a beautiful compliment and it starts a really great conversation. That's not so, um, lusty. Yes, yes. So I'm really, like I'm fortunate to be on the receiving end of lots of praise and it feels wonderful to be praised. The language is really important though. And the same person can establish themselves as like a beta or as someone who is like just a colleague and a normal person. I like there's, there's just such a difference between like, Oh my God, I love your, I love your emails. Like I'm such a fan girl, like fan girling all over you. It is the worst word. Like nobody says fan boy for starters, but that's a whole another conversation. Um, so, uh, like by contrast, like I am such a great admirer of your work. Thank you. Um, and that's all you have to say and bonus if you can. I also think like, I also think if you can sort of like think about something that's conversational and that's not like everything you did for me. Like it could be like, Hey, you know, that I thought so much about that post on Instagram the other day about what X, Y, Z, you know, there's this great book, have you heard of this author, blah, blah, blah. And then just like just leading into a conversation, like that's very different. Yeah. Oh, I love that. It forces you think in advance. Like you have this moment in front of this person. Like how are you going to use it? And I think that, I think that's something that we forget about taking the time to think in advance. I think that is part of visibility, right? Visibility is one part, uh, getting in front of people and obviously speaking on a stage or on a podcast, whatever that looks like. But I don't think a lot of people think about visibility in the networking sense, like meeting people in, um, in those meet and greets or in, uh, at a bar after hours at a conference or standing next to them in line in the bathroom. Like thinking about how could you show up in a quality way for people in those kinds of impromptu exchanges. You can be really intentional there. Yeah, totally. Totally. Okay. I'm curious, let's pivot a bit. I want to start landing the plane here in a moment. I know I could talk to you for hours upon hours, but I also think that people have a level of exhaustion in their earbuds. So I want to talk about a couple of practical things because you've done so much work and visibility specifically on stages. I still like I'm in awe. The fact that you spoke on that stage for the very first time. It started a really amazing journey, but I know you've learned a few things. So practically speaking, I know a lot of people listen to the show are, let's call it stage curious, where they're thinking. They're either talking on stages and they want to amplify it or they have this bigger message that they want to impact more people, but they're a little fearful of the stage. So do you have any tips that you've embodied over the years for just showing up on stages with confidence? Yes, totally. Okay, so, like, I think when you see a great speaker on stage, you're like, Oh, like this person is such a natural, like wow, I wish I had that level of skill. And I know that when people have seen me on stage, they're like, Oh wow, like this is like wow, she just like coming up with this awesome stuff. But what you don't know is like I memorize every single word basically, and that's not everyone's method. But that to me like that gives me so much security. Like when I'm up, and I know it won't always be this way, but still I'm very new at speaking on stages. Like I rehearse the shit out of every talk. Like I, if I'm at an event and I like, I hate when I'm speaking on like the second or third day because I'm going to miss the whole thing. I'm going to be in my room, I'm going to rehearse in the morning when I'm putting on my makeup, I'm going to think about it for the rest of the morning. I'm going to go back at lunch and rehearse again. Like I'm probably gonna rehearse like four times a day until it's done. And I don't do that for months on end. And I'm good at memorizing things cause I, I, um, have played piano since I was a child, but, um, to me it just helps so much. It gives me so much confidence to know that like, it's all up there. Uh, I'm not relying on the muse to bless me. Um, so that's, mmm, really important. And also like I shell out for the best help there is. Man, and it's always, it's always paid off for me. Like, Mmm. Just being like being told like how to stand and what shoes to wear and not to wear. And um, you know, sometimes some, like the way you say one thing can just, there can be a simple tweak that makes it so much better. And I'm a writer too so I'm like I, you know, you might think like I got this, but no. Um, I I do like invest in getting help and that's definitely been like instrumental in, you know, getting the, nailing the first gig so I could get the second one, the third and the fourth one. Yeah, I think that's an interesting thing. I've talked to over the last year talked to a lot of, especially copywriters and people who specialize in brand strategy or business coaching in general and a very common thing I hear when we're on the phone I'm going, God I do this kind of stuff for my clients all the time. Why am I so mental blocked being able to do this for myself? Meaning like coming up with their messaging on their talk. I'm just curious, cause we had a moment like that when you and I were working together last year and you're like wait a minute. Oh, we would drew the parallel between an email sequence and how to design like your event content. Yeah. I'm curious like what do you think that mental block is between like, cause I think a lot of people think that they should be able to create their own top cause they write their own messaging. Yeah. What is it that's going on there? Mmm. Well you know like as someone who was a copywriter for a lot of years, the way that if things sound like, sometimes you do just need a sounding board and you need someone to reflect back at you. Something that you already said, like some of your brilliance is like you don't even notice it just came out and somewhat and you might take it for granted and be like, Oh everybody knows this and then you're, but you're face to face with someone who's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, like back up a second. That's really, really important. I don't know if that answers the question, but I think it totally does because I think we get so-, well two things. One, things that are written on paper aren't going to translate verbally in the same way. So it's just a little different style there. But the other thing is the, I think sometimes we get too close to it that we can't hear it from an audience's perspective, meaning somebody who's not in our world or that they're 20 steps behind where we're at right now. Like we need to adopt our messaging, go back to where they are and when we're just too close to it. It's just hard to do. It's hard to do for yourself. Precisely. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was really new in my writing career and someone said the hardest thing to do is to write your own bio. It is really, it sucks. I hate writing. I hate writing bios. I think really hard, tedious things that we all hate. I, it is hard. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I have a couple of final questions for you that I like to ask to all of my guests. Uh, the name of the show is Finding Your It Factor. I think it's this idea that we're all always on this constant journey to be the best version of ourselves. And when we're working on that, we can show up for our audience in the best way possible. I'm curious for you, how would you define the It factor and what would you say yours is? Mm, okay. So I think that your It factor like it often doesn't, it sometimes seems like it's not really related to business. Like your It factor isn't like that you're the world's greatest coach at, you know, coaching absolute beginners. I don't think that's it. I think it's like, I, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this, but to me like in your It factor, we all have it and it's something that can't be taught. It's like you just came into the world with this and um, back to my psychedelic journey to bring it all home to where it all began. Uh, I like revisited my birth and what I came into the world with and what I came into the world with was an ability to tell stories and to tell stories that are sometimes hard and I can make them sound funny and that is a real gift that I've been given and I maybe that's my It factor. Yep. You do have a really good knack for that. It's storytelling both in person but also in writing. It's a, it's a beautiful thing and I don't think that a lot of people have that natural ability and why they're drawn to you because they want to learn it. Okay. I love that. So I know people are very curious around your psychedelic journey, but also just we covered a lot of things today. Uh, I've obviously follow Tarzan and all the places online. Um, for those listening you might already, but if not, can you tell them where they can go to follow you, get more information about what it is that you do and maybe potentially work with you in the future? Yeah. So if you go to tarzankay.com, um, I have a lot of really cool email swipes available on my website and tools for launching. So some of that might be things like planning your promo calendar or figuring out what actually goes in your emails the best. I feel like one of the strongest things I've done lately though is I rewrote my welcome sequence and uh, you can get that just by signing up to anything. You're going to get my welcome sequence. So I mean join my email list for the free stuff, but the real goal does actually in the emails I, I feel like I'm doing something not too many people are doing with email. I'm really proud of it. It's some of my best work. So if you want to see it, get on the email list. Yeah, I agree. I get your emails all the time and they're one of the only ones that I read. Usually I just delete right away or file stuff for later. But I read your emails every week and I love them. Tarzan, I appreciate you so much. You have been an instrumental person in my, in my journey, in the online space, i n my confidence a nd in my visibility a nd my business and I'm so grateful for you. So I just need to publicly declare how much I appreciate you and care about you and just I'm so thankful for you. My audience already knows that c ause I talk about you all the time, but I don't know that you know how big of a gift you are for so many who l istened to p odcasts when they come out live or months and months and months down the line. But your u m, you're willing to be vulnerable, you're willing to just share whatever it is that you know so others could benefit. It's a really, really beautiful thing and I'm just so grateful for you, Heather. I am so grateful to be w alking by your side going on this really important journey that we're on. The psychedelic journey. I could not. Thank you so much girl before, before we tie i t o ut, is there any other final thoughts you'd like to share to the It Factor audience? Well, I am so grateful to be here and Heather, I am a great supporter of your work. I consider you a colleague for certain and so I h ope, I h ope your listeners are thinking about working with you, that they will jump on it. M mm. You're at this stage of business right now and this p ro-, this won't even apply like six months from now, but u m, I feel like those who work with you at this stage, they're very, very lucky to get you because you will never be this accessible again. It's just going to grow from here. U m, so you know, the people who I've seen take you up on your offers and programs, I'm like, wow, they, they really, that was a really smart decision. I love that stamp of approval. I'm so excited you guys know where to find me. I'm very excited about the masterclass coming up here in a couple of weeks. So keep tuning in for more details and again, go follow Tarzan. Thank you so much for being here. W e'll see you guys. Same time, same place next week

Speaker 2: 58:32

Guys, thanks so much for listening to Finding Your It Factor. And hey, if you have a talk coming up, you have to check out my free resource. It's called Nail Your Next Talk. 10 must ask questions before taking the stage so you can show up as an authority and turn that talk into future business. These are the questions that I use myself to prepare for my life talks, and they're going to help you ask the right questions of the person who booked you for the event. So the meeting planner or the client, and it's going to help you serve your audience to the best way possible. It's going to help you anticipate potential tech or 80 snags. Turn the Q&A time into a strategic place for content and make this speaking opportunity, a lead generator for your business. So go get it. What are you waiting for? It's over at heathersager. com/10questions

Speaker 3: 59:38

[inaudible].