Meet my guest: Harvard law grad lawyer turned online entrepreneur and email writing lover, Bobby Klinck.
Today, we’re talking about how to add more cowbell into your emails.
But wait, who’s Bobby? And why do you need cowbells? Listen in for how Bobby uses emails to accelerate the “know, like & trust factor” with his audience.
This is Part 1 of a 3 part series on building the “know, like & trust factor” with your online audience.
EPISODE SHOW NOTES👇
➡️ https://heathersager.com/episode35/
🔗 Grab the latest FREE resources: https://heathersager.com/start
🔗 Browse all episode shownotes: https://heathersager.com/blog
👋 CONNECT WITH HEATHER:
Work with Heather: https://www.heathersager.com/
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/HeatherSager
If you’re loving this episode, please take a moment to rate & review the show. This helps me get this message to more people so they too can ditch the hustle 24/7 life.
Meet my guest: Harvard law grad lawyer turned online entrepreneur and email writing lover, Bobby Klinck.
Today, we’re talking about how to add more cowbell into your emails.
But wait, who’s Bobby? And why do you need cowbells? Listen in for how Bobby uses emails to accelerate the “know, like & trust factor” with his audience.
This is Part 1 of a 3 part series on building the “know, like & trust factor” with your online audience.
EPISODE SHOW NOTES👇
➡️ https://heathersager.com/episode35/
🔗 Grab the latest FREE resources: https://heathersager.com/start
🔗 Browse all episode shownotes: https://heathersager.com/blog
👋 CONNECT WITH HEATHER:
Work with Heather: https://www.heathersager.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theheathersager/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/HeatherSager
If you’re loving this episode, please take a moment to rate & review the show. This helps me get this message to more people so they too can ditch the hustle 24/7 life.
spk_1: 0:00
I'm Heather Sager, and you're listening to finding her a factor. Episode 35 They say the secret to good marketing is to build that like no. One trust factor with your audience. Well, I don't know who they are, but I do know they're not wrong. There's a lot of fancy marketing strategies out their friend. But when it comes to building relationships in your business and establishing yourself as an authority, I think this might be the most important. But I've always had the question. Can you really build that like no. One trust factor online? Turns out heck yes, you can. And over these next three episodes, that's right. We're going into a three part series. We're gonna teach you how to accelerate the like know and trust factor in your business, starting with today's amazing guest, Bobby Klink. Have you ever wondered how some people just seem to have a way with words? They have this spark that lights you up when you're near them. They have the it factor, And while most people think it's something that only a few are born with, I believe that you can find it so it can become your superpower to grow your business. It's about you bringing your brand to life by becoming a magnetic communicator in person and on camera, showing up with confidence, authenticity, an inspiration. So, are you ready to become magnetic? I thought so. Either Sager and I'd like to welcome you to finding your factor. Hey, friend, welcome back to another episode. Goodness, You picked a great week to tune in. Not only are we talking about the like, No. One trust factor, this is the set up for a three part series where oh, my goodness, Today's interview with Bobby is fire. You're going to love it. Bobby is just He's easy to listen. Thio. He has a big personality, even bigger heart. It's one of the things that I love about him. But the reason why I brought Bobby on today, huh? I wanted you to hear from someone who is not a copywriter but who is exceptional at bringing their personality into their copy. Is he in the online space going to think about two things and building that like no one trust factor which essentially is If you want people to grow and build a relationship with you, they have to know you. And in order for them to know you that they don't know about you, they have to actually like you and they have to trust you like obviously that's what the like. No one trust factor is. But there's two ways that we approach this right. It's how we show up in video. It's how we show up physically in person. If we're at live events. Networking with other people talking with people on stage is if we show it for people in workshop formats online or group coaching programs like the actual verbal communication that we have with people, it's how we show up. That's one way of how we build that like no one trust factor. But another way that we do that is through our written copy, whether that's in our social media posts or are our website copy or the inbox that email, you have to know how to do both, and you already know that what I help you with is that verbal communication skills of how do you actually bring your personality breaking really great content in the right in the right order, in the right, in the right package so it connects with your audience. But some of the same principle still apply with copy, but there are some nuance differences and sure, I could have brought a copywriter on already know have quite a few copywriter friends. That sounds really lame to save me Name dropping have copywriter friends. But, you know, Ideo, I talked about this, have had charge and Kay on multiple times. I'm in our mastermind, which is filled with so many incredible copywriters. I've learned so much from train copywriters. Also, I acknowledge that you are most likely not a copywriter yourself. So in order for us to talk about how to bring personality and your copy, I wanted you to hear from someone who doesn't do that full time. I mean, he does. He writes all the time, but he's not a copywriter. Bobby is a Harvard law grad turned online entrepreneur. I mean, talk about quintessential stuffy suit, corporate jargon, language churned like maximum personality of the party every single day. If you're like me, you come from a corporate background or professional background, maybe finance or for me, medical space like you're used to talking in a very formal way when quite frankly, sometimes the bigger the fancy or the words the better. That is not how things fly in this space. We need Thio Wright, Copy. We need a writer emails in a very conversational tone where it makes people feel like they know us that we're besties you and I. You know me. You know my weird cigarette ISMs. You know, my weird quirks. You know, funny stories about my kids. You know me. I'm still getting to know you. Like we should share a little bit more about yourself, friend and not reply button. But I think we're getting to know each other. And I know that in order for us to build connection, I have to speak to you in a way that's like how we would talk to my girlfriend's three margaritas deep. I mean, maybe a little less. I don't know. I actually do talk to you In that way. I feel like we have that kind of relationship, you and I. But it is one that took a lot of trial and error for me to get to that point where I felt totally comfortable saying things not only on the show but in my email copy because when I first started my business, I was still writing very, very formal. Very. Let's call it dry toast. Dry toast in your in box of hearings. Exactly. This thing may be acute. See analogy. And then here's the other thing. It's dry toast. Nobody wants dry toast, especially in their inbox. I mean those air like the e mails we get from the businesses that we do not want to do business with. But we need to stay on their list because of the coupons. We don't want that. You want to think about how you communicate with other people. You never want to be dry toast. Do you want to bring fully you, whether that's avocado toast with everything bagel seasoning or you're more of like a bagel situation with locks and cream cheese? I don't know what your personality is, you know that. But the most important thing is you have to bring it to the party. So Bobby's Bobby's in conversation. We talk about bringing personality and your email copy. We talk about just bringing your personality and your brand. In general, we have a heck of a lot of fun and I know that you're going to love this interview. So take note now, before we jump into it just a real quick No, I want to mention considering the timing of this, I've been getting a lot of questions from people around live events and speaking, You know, I teach you how to speak on stage. Is using a signature talks that you can position yourself is an authority and grow your business specifically your email list. Now here's the thing. Live events are at a standstill right now. They've all been canceled, slash postponed. Right now, you might be thinking like, Oh, my goodness, do I really need to be focusing on this area? And the answer is yes. This is the time for you to be crafting your skill. Also, remember, stages aren't just live about stages. Could be you being guests on podcast like Bobby today is speaking on my stage. It could be you guess, teaching a breakout session in somebody's course or in somebody's mastermind or or membership. You can offer your content and your personality and a lot of different ways. Virtually this is the time for you to be practicing those things because live events will be coming back and they're going to be looking for people who have great talks to bring value to their audiences. Event organizers will be looking for you. So this is the time for UT practicing that skill. Do not back off the gas pedal. Your goals should not be changing. You just need to shift around, win and how you're gonna approach them. But if speaking from the stage and being seen as an authority in your field is still a priority for you, hit that gas pedal. The most important thing for you to remember you need a strategy. Do not fly blindly. Do not hope that your content will just miraculously connect to growth of your business. You have to design your content in a way that guides people down a pathway to get excited to get some quick wins and then want to continue the conversation with you because they, like, know and trust you. So if you want some help on getting start without, remember, I have an incredible guide that will help you with getting started. It's specifically the Entrepreneur's Guide. The online Entrepreneur's Guide to Speaking on stage is five steps to get started so you can grow your authority in your audience. Go get it before you have in the episode older at heather. Sager dot com forward slash five steps. Okay. Are you ready to dive in? I cannot wait. So let's jump in. Ladies and gentlemen, Bobby Klink. All right, Bobby, welcome to the show. I'm so thrilled to have you here. Thanks for
spk_0: 9:11
having that. I'm excited to be here. This is gonna be fun.
spk_1: 9:14
This is gonna be a lot of fun because we're talking about a topic that I feel like it's one of those things and it's a love or hate situation either. Like you're all into email and your super excited to try things out or people run away from it, so we'll dive in. But I guess before we d'oh, I would imagine there's gonna be some my listeners that maybe I have not been blessed to know Bobby. Yeah, So why don't you share? Ah, So you are what you doing?
spk_0: 9:37
Well, So the funny thing is like when you hear my bio, you would never think this is a guy who knows about email. I am a lawyer by trade. I'm a Harvard law grad, did the lawyer thing like just a traditional lawyer thing for about 15 years. Then I transitioned into the online space, and I started helping online entrepreneurs to get their legal protection place with legal templates and free training. Things like that. And along the way I developed a love for email. And what I like to say is my love for email is partly the results, but partly I can't have fun with it. But the results I talk about is that in 2019 I had a multiple six figure business selling the most boring thing ever. Legal templates via email. I would send e mails, I would make tens of thousands of dollars. And I said, I like this, you know, This was, you know, And so I was doing that. And before that, I was doing like, launches and those things, and they were fine. But then I just started to him. I was like, Wow, this is fun! But that's like the results piece, but more importantly, like, I actually get to have fun with e mail, which a lot of people don't. And again, if your listeners air sickness. We No, no, no. I couldn't possibly do that. That's where I waas. Before September, there was a August or September malicious. Call it the beginning of September of 2018. That's where I was my emails. They were boring. Like as you would call them. They were. They were dry toast. They won't just, you know, here's a podcast episode. We cover this, you're gonna learn this and this and this and this and this Go click and listen.
spk_1: 11:24
But I'm sure they read that they read them in that voice too, Right? Exactly.
spk_0: 11:27
And I mean, that's what I'm gonna do. That voice. But I do that voice for a reason because that's what like most people's e mails are. And so I mean, that's what I was doing forever. And it was also just like, first, all no one really cared about him, but also like riding the most pain because, like sitting out right that you're saying, you know, it's it's whatever. And then I made this shift in September 2018 and just completely, um, reworked what I did with email. Like overnight and number one. I started having fun overnight and I started getting amazing, like results. Like people e mailing back, saying For the first time, I feel like you're a human being and I want to do business with, like, little this happen either the first or second week that I just scrapped that dry toast and started kind of being
spk_1: 12:14
avocado toast with everything Bagel seasoning. Yeah, I
spk_0: 12:18
don't know if I mean I I'm an East coaster. So avocado toast is not what I am. I don't know what I am. Maybe it's like, you know, toast with some like Suraj on and I don't know, but, um, you know, But so I started doing that and just got these results immediately, and for a long time it was just That's just how it's old stuff. And then people started asking me how I was doing it. And so I started talking about it more, and I found that you know, I love talking about this. If you kind of kind of imagine more than illegal stuff, I still help people illegal stuff, but that's not a lot of fun to talk about. That's why. Okay, Here, let's just let's get it done for you. But Now let's talk about the marketing. So let's talk about email. And so that's kind of what I spend my time helping people with.
spk_1: 13:00
Yeah, and you're and you're great at it. I'm on your email list. I'm also a customer of your legal templates, and I agree, like you make those things fun. But that's that's not the unique and special and fun thing to talk about. So I'm curious. I know a little bit of this story, but what was that pivotal shift for you back in 2018? That was that light bulb moment where you decided to stop being boring. Well, s Oh, there were a
spk_0: 13:22
couple of things happening all at once. So first of all, it was really culminating me. Step back 2018 when I took the school Marie for Leo's problem and I took it through Amy Porter Fields affiliate like And so I was in Amy's group, and anyone who's been around me in a Facebook group knows that kind of, ah, hyper active user of Facebook.
spk_1: 13:45
Okay, time out. I have to tell this story here. I don't think I've mentioned this to you before, Bobby, but I fast forward. I met you in one of Amy Porter fields, Facebook groups. And it was in digital course Academy the very first round, and we were on alive. And all the sudden I just see this guy commented every 30 seconds to everyone I'm like, Does he work for Amy? Who is this guy? Why is he talking all the time? What is all these figs? And there you were every day in the Facebook for weeks. And at first I was like, I don't I don't understand it. And then you wore me down. And I was like, this Bobby guys kind of magical one. I don't know if he sleeps too. I don't even know what he does. But three, I've never seen him show up and ask for anything. All you were doing was being there to cheer on support and help other people. And I instantly a little online in love with you.
spk_0: 14:36
Yeah, well, so what s o now again? We've got a tigress, even Maur because and again, this is the thing like so you like you then met me. Basically a year after this shift happened because prior to be school, that was not me. I was the prototypical lawyer than No, there's a problem. Negative, Nelly, Like, you know, I just saw problems everywhere. And Amy that year in 2018 set up this, like, thinking about B school pop up, and I joined it. And then, like, you know, I was I was in there, and I was talking. And she actually she set up an engagement contest where the most engaged member each week was going to get a prize and, like, one of the prizes would just like some of it was like a light lighting equipment. Some of it was like one was you could talk to Amy for 30 minutes, One she could talk to Chloe. Heard number two for 30 minutes, and I don't remember what the 4th 1? Well, they announce it about 2/3 of the way through week one. So I don't win week one, but I'm like competition challenging some men. Yeah, type a lawyer. Yes. I'm gonna win this thing. And so we too, I just do it. But you can imagine there aren't that many legal questions for me to answer. And so I just started, like you know, being supportive. And I also found I knew a lot of stuff about online marketing because I've been dabbling in it for a while. It was answering questions, and so I won that competition, like with Amy, announced it like the next week. She was like it was on alive and she said something like, Well, I was pretty sure I knew who was gonna win this week's engagement contest. But I had a look and literally, as you see that all these comments Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, like everybody's saying that. And sure enough, I did. So I won that. Now the crazy thing is a person one week, one did not take 30 minutes with a So I took the 30 minutes with Amy. She was on my podcast when I had, like, on average, like 25 downloads a week, and I didn't tell her that time, but so I mean, that was kind of how I did that. But the coded of that story is like I found that I loved being supportive and my friends and family in real life, like a week and 1/2 later that they noticed it, and they commented that I seemed to be a different person. So I tell that just so I mean, I want everybody to know like I was boring, annoying, no man lawyer like little more in two years. That's why Waas, um so fast forward. Let's get back to the actual question had about how I developed this love of email and how shifted so And he was having an event that year in late August, for anyone had signed up for B school through her and in the group, I was like I had created a video. It was gonna be for my law firm. And the topic was about how online entrepreneurs are different. So they need a different kind of lawyer. And I put this video together and it's kind of funny. It's like showing like, you know, juxtaposing like the way online entrepreneurs work with the way corporate people operate. And then, you know, it's it goes to the end. And then it just had, like, a picture of me. Nothing else. No, not me. Saying anything. Why? Posted in the group for comments? And, uh, I understand you had Melanie on last week.
spk_1: 17:50
We're dead. We talked about Facebook lives.
spk_0: 17:53
So she comments on a ship. What's good, but dot, dot, dot And then she says, I think she posted the gift of it needs more Cow Bell, which, if you don't know the Saturday Night Live reference, it's It's Christopher Walk in and, um, Will Ferrell and Christopher Walken saying, I got a fever and the only cure for it is more cow because like, you would never actually want Cow Bell or more of it in a song. But that's the joke. And then she says, And the cow bell is you and her point Waas that I was not injecting any of myself into this video and like, at that point, like, I mean, I had maybe interacted with Melanie once or twice, but I hadn't really done it. So this is going on in my mind. Then I go to Amy's event, and meanwhile, I had thought I need to take this course here in D. C. There's a program about like storytelling, and so I was thinking about doing that. And Amy's event are for, you know, unites friend Tarzan K comes and does this presentation about e mail, and I'm talking to another one. My friends, they're Gillian Bowen was one of my business besties down Australia. I was like, Yeah, I feel like I need to get better at telling stories. So I'm thinking about taking this story district course in D. C. And she looks at me like what this looks like. What do you talk about? What were you talking about? You've been doing nothing but tell me stories for the last three hours. And so she kind of pointed out that in my mind I was thinking that a story had to be like a brave heart, like this epic tale. And she said, No, a story is all these little things you're telling me all the time. So this has me thinking and one other thing happened that saying that same event the first night, we were in a like a cocktail hour and you could take pictures with me. Well, I was working with Amy at the time. I was kind of their legal guy for her team. And so everyone, let's take a picture with Amy. And I'm saying, Hey, I want to take a picture with Hurtt. Chloe, who's there? Integrator. Her number two was like up in the front lines. I was joking. So I go to take a selfie and it took a selfie with Chloe. Well, that night I get back to my room, like after. You know, I'm the last guy at the bar because I'm now a social butterfly at all these events. So get back to my room and I'm flicking through and I find that Amy had photo bombed us like sticking her tongue out, like making a funny face. When I took this selfie and I thought it was hilarious, So I just instinctively I said she share and texted it to my wife. She's on the West for the East Coast. She's asleep. Hey, wake up The next morning, two attacks back from my wife. Why are you sending me pictures of you with random women? That was literally the text. And so I tell this story to my friend. She said, That has to be your next email. So what Time out? That was my next email that I sent after that event, the subject line was in quotes. Why are you sending me pictures of you with random women? And I told the story It was way too long, and I linked it to back to whatever are. I was talking about that week and I got Maur amazing reaction to that email than I'd ever gotten before. Ironically, I think e had more men respond that I've ever had my audience. 5% women. And I think, like I had multiple men respond, saying they were afraid they had been hacked and that I was saying that to them because they had sent me pictures of women. Um, but so that was how I started. And I got that amazing first kind of jolt right there, and I'm nothing if not trainable. And so I went from there, and my emails have gotten crazier and crazier and crazier. Like last Easter we're recording this Easter week Last Easter week, my the subject line of my email was, I don't like Sweet Baby Jesus. And then I I defused. If I say I'm talking about the beer, not the person in the email, but still those are the kinds of things I do with my e mails now.
spk_1: 21:48
Yeah, you have great subject lines, really great subject lines. That was one of the things that I took note of for sure when I got into your nurture sequence. It's just it's fascinating to listen to you. And, you know, I like that you talk about this idea, but it wasn't very long ago that you yourself were writing just the standard e mails. And I think what's interesting is when it comes to e mails for people, there's like this Grady int where people people don't view this ingredient. They look at it. Either you write really boring emails or you have to be really good and kind of off the rails off the walls to stand out. And so I don't know that we give ourselves permission to try things because we feel like we have to either be this epic storyteller or dry toast like it. So how how does somebody go about exploring this a bit? If they're a little bit scared and don't know, I don't know how to bring their personality in
spk_0: 22:40
Well, so let me step back. I mean, fundamentally, I think the problem is that well, first of all, people are scared that that's part of it. But also people just aren't injecting themselves into their emails. if you think about most e mails you get and again, I'm not gonna point fingers, like even some emails that were written by, like, people who have copywriters. I mean, they're fine, but it's not about the person. And what I kind of my big realization is that in our space, every we're all personal brands and people are gonna want to do business with you because they like you. And guess what? You can't get people to like you unless you let him get to know you. And so that's the thing. And in a lot of ways, this is This is the other part. I think like I love story brand, the book and the concept, but I think it's ruined us because I think everybody says, Oh, the story always has to be about someone else And that's true for some stories. But what I challenge people is that actually, with your e mails, they should be about you because your e mails are a chance, like for you to let people get to know you and really like know who you are, and some of the people, especially with me, someone people like, Whoa, this guy's not for me. I'm out of here and that's fine. But people also find that they have all these random connections with and because I just share these little tidbits like I had one email where I shared that I had Pete. And as a high school senior, I was in speech and debate In high school, I actually won the Texas State debate champion.
spk_1: 24:22
That does not surprise anyone listening, but
spk_0: 24:24
that was not what this email was about. This e mail was about this weird, wacky event that my coach made us do called, um, friend, What if it was even called? He was impromptu speaking. It was like supposed to be an organized but funny speech. And what I'm like, I don't know. How do I know how to be funny? Which is funny now because I'm known to be funny, but, um and so I get this topic about like, if you could, you would go and pick a topic, and then you'd have a few minutes to come up with speech, and then you just have to do it. And so my topic was, If you give yourself any nickname, what would it be and why I'm sitting here. I have no clue. Look out. See a friend like who have been razzing me about having a big ego, um, all day, like through the window and said, I go up I wrote right through the topic in the right G o e. I give myself any nickname in the world. What would it be and why it'll be g o e going Because that's one after God. And I said first, I'm good at everything. Second, everybody loves me this point judge not having great time. Then I say, And number three, I'm very humbled. At which point, literally the judge falls out of his chair laughing because I've just spent four minutes talking about how I'm the best thing since sliced bread. And I say I'm humble. And so I tell this story about this random event and I had, like, multiple people responsive. I had to do that speaking event, too. You're like, how would I have known that? But now they have a connection with me, and now they feel like like my friend. And this is kind of what I tell people is Think of email like you're writing to a friend and trying to build a friendship like people on my list Feel like we're friends. And that's what I want. I don't want them to think of me as a you know, brand. I want them to think of me as a friend. And so that shift is huge. And also permission to just, you know, let people go. I mean, um, So we were talking about this before we hit record. Heather, like, you know, Tarzan, K and I, we both celebrate unsubscribe, and I go a bit further like a lot of people are afraid of. I love it would be blunt.
spk_1: 26:34
Could you just clarify what unsubscribed a is? Yeah.
spk_0: 26:38
So unsubscribe Day is the day I said my weekly meals, and with me, I said more than one a week Now, I rarely go a week without sending two or three, but the point is, every day I sent an e mail. People are unsubscribe. And the reason why I celebrate that number one is the only way you're gonna not have people unsubscribed from your list is if you never email your list. So you know that's not good. Or if you're just so bland and blah that you're never gonna connect with people. There's this old saying Love me or hate me. There's no money in between and that's where I want to be. I want people either love me or hate me and, you know, whatever. But so I go further than celebrating on subscribes and my integrator Now my number two. She gets mad when I say this, But if I go like two weeks without getting spam complaints, I get nervous because I know I'm not actually standing like they're on my lists, and especially now I have a welcome sequence. If someone goes through my welcome sequence, I literally give them my greatest hits and my greatest hits. I mean, it's and they're always the same e mails, most positive reaction in most negative reaction. So they know me so that you know, But so I guess my point is that if I am not having that kind of reaction from people, it says to me that maybe I'm being too block on, and I don't do it to shock people. I don't do it to be polarizing. It's just a sign that maybe I'm not being me.
spk_1: 28:01
I think about it. I think about it almost like the dating process, where you want to filter people out to make sure you're gonna be really good match. Because, as I mean, as great as it is that we're building, our emails were doing all this free content. We're building businesses to sell products and make money and obviously make an impact. That's all. Big piece of it. So this idea from your e mail should guide people down the pathway of doing business with you. So you don't want to have a bunch of people there that are just there to hang out like you want to weed people out. So they got polarizing. Neutral sequence is a good
spk_0: 28:32
thing. Yeah, well, it's it's it's about that. But it's also like and here's the other thing. I want people to understand. Like I'm also big. I push people Tony Stout and Denise down and needs down in these down forever, And a lot of people don't want to do that because they're afraid. And I made this mistake in my law firm days especially, but you're like, Well, I don't want to not serve that person. I could make money there. And so you're afraid that by doing that, you're not going well. Here's what I tell you. There's more than one lawyer who helps online entrepreneurs, and that's okay, you know. I mean, that's absolutely fine. There are plenty of online entrepreneurs to go around ultimately, like we can like and another one of our coaches, James Webb. More talks about this. How, like people don't want courses now, they want something deeper. They want a level of connection, and I think it's very funny because a lot of people what I find is they focus on doing that, like trying to build a connection, warn people before they get on their list and then after they buy from. But in that middle period, they're not, and I'm like, That's the most important part. I mean, in some ways, like I don't have toe overdeliver in programs. I mean, I do. But I don't have to as much because I've already built this crazy relationship with people when they're on my email list and again, some people say sayonara. This guy's nuts. I'm out of here and that's okay, but because I build that relationship like I have people who are like we're brand advocates and brand promoters before they ever bought from me because they felt that level of connection because I let them get to know me. I treat them, you know, with respect and all that. And I just say, That's what I want. I want that with my list. Um and so that's where I focus. But another thing is like people are focused on the wrong thing. Um, so unsubscribed is one thing, but people are also focused on, like open rates. And this is one of things I talk about a lot as long as you have, like, a high enough open rate. And I mean, like, above like 20%. I don't care what your open rate is. Honestly, I don't care if it gets low and you have real problems. You could have deliver ability, go down because people so we have to worry about that. But beyond that, I don't care because you know what on email Open doesn't tell me anything about whether that person is connected to your not unopened is a What I care about is are they clicking? Reply like this is the thing people don't get every time I send an email. Now, at least one person clicks reply and writes back, even though I don't ask him too, because they just feel compelled. That's what you should be looking for and focus on the people who are opening and who are reading. And don't worry about the rest.
spk_1: 31:25
So I've heard you talk about this before and what's what's interesting. So I'll have weeks for I get a lot of replies. Weeks, I get a couple replies. We figured crickets. I feel like it's kind of a little bit of a roller coaster sometimes. But one of the questions that I hear a lot from people is how do you get people to hit Reply and something that you just said struck me as you shouldn't be, like trying to get them to reply there like you create this compelling reason for them to want to connect. So can you talk about that a little bit more around? How how it's worked for you and what you think leads people to wanting to reply
spk_0: 31:59
so ultimately what that what makes them reply as a connection And so and I wish that you were like that all your listeners would get this in video because in my daughter's class, they do this, Um, it is that the sign language signed for me, too. I have that in common with you. So they do that any time. They have something in common with the person talking now they don't do that now because they're not in class. But that's a separate issue. And my point is, when you tell stories and let people get to know you, they when they connect with something, they will feel the need to reply like the people who had to tell me I had to do that event, too. Or when I write this thing about hating this beer sweet, maybe use some people wrote and said, I love that beer. What's wrong with you? And some people said, You're right. Peanut butter and chocolate do not belong in a beer, so those kinds of things they just like because you're showing your personality in a fun way, you end up like they're connected and they want to tell you their connection. What what I want to tell people, Um, and college sports fans especially, will get this, but any sport fan will get this. But like I live in Washington D. C. So I'm really from Texas. I went to the University of Texas. I grew up being in the University of Texas fan my whole life because my parents had gone there etcetera and so like, Sometimes I'll be wearing like when I'm out for a walk, a University of Texas shirt and when I pass someone periodically, they will throw me the hook, em horns handsome. They have that in common with me, so they feel the need to do it because we want to have things in common. So to me, that's the trick to it is you just let them in and tell them the stories. And then people are gonna want to tell you, Yeah, me, too. That's where you get the replies. Yeah, me, too. Now, sometimes you'll get more meaningful ones, Um, and sometimes, like that's when you do it. But the other thing I tell people, by the way, and I hope you're doing this other, you have to train your people. So when they do reply, you, then respond back to them. And if they reply with a longer, meaningful note. I reply with a long, meaningful response to because I want people to learn. Hey, you know, if you e mail me, how many 1,000,000 back and that is something that people Cray, and so over time you just kind of train your list. And again, what? What I like Selby was my my goal and everything I do. Building a business is to focus on creating the core raving fans because those were the people that drive your business. And that's why I say focus on those people. And when you do what'll happen, if you get more and more of those people and so that it takes care of itself.
spk_1: 34:47
I guess it's like a snowball effect as it comes down. You know, it's interesting. We talk about that idea of training, training. You're less training your fans there. I think this applies in so many different things. I teach something similar when it comes to live events and speaking, so many people ask questions and then get frustrated. When an audience doesn't respond. It's because you gotta train your audience how you want them to engage with you. What kinds of questions do you want the bass, you want to raise your hands? Do you want them? Thio. I don't get up into an activity with You actually have to tell people what you want them to dio. And then when they do it, you have to react accordingly to give them the right kind of feedback. So you breed more of that kind of engagement. So it's interesting that you say that because it is the exact same thing on social media, on your Facebook lives and on your email list, it's You have to groom the behavior and then model that behavior and how you engage back with us. So I think, yeah, I think that's a hard thing to do. It's easy to think about, but I don't think a lot of people are actually thinking about that.
spk_0: 35:44
Well, so and that's true. So like part of is what you do when they give you the right response, but again and here's and I don't want, like, I don't want this to sound bad, like you can't turn things around if you haven't been doing things right right now. But what I tell people's every single email you send your training your audience. And so, like when I shifted from being boring body to like who I am now, it took a while because my audience was used to basically boring emails that they tuned out. And so when you send those kinds of things and it starts at the very beginning, if you send a very boring here's your thing. Email. When someone first downloads a freebie from you, guess what? You've just trained them that your event. You know that your email is not really something I care about or, like some other people, go like the other extreme. I hear some people have, like crazy, high open rates, and this is like one of the reason why I say open rates are a problem. Like I was reading this one woman's Harmon and she helps, um, some kind of Web designers and something about CSS coding. I mean, I know a little bit of CSS I don't know exactly. But she explained that she was getting these openings because she would share a crazy, valuable piece of CSS coding in every single email. Well, guess what? You're just training your audience that they're just gonna get freebies from Probably never gonna buy it. So I'm saying, like that Open, right? I mean, that doesn't help. Basically, they're opening to grab the CSS and, you know, to move on. And like, So there's some of that going on And then, like, there's other stuff like this was like when When messenger was a big thing and I was talking about open range, no message or being so high, You know, I opened rates were so high on messenger, cause I know about you, but it was easier for me just to open it rather and figure out how to delete it without opening. Yeah, so and so that's why saying open doesn't tell you anything. Yeah, You gotta look at the other stuff.
spk_1: 37:36
You know, it's interesting when you talk about the training over time because you okay, somebody here. Is this today? No, Michael, I'm gonna go tell a story. I mean, infuse it. And what's gonna happen is since they have entering their audience, they're going to do it, and it may or may not make a difference. So can you talk a little bit about that? That period of what? Like what it's feels like what it was like for you when you first started adding personality into. And how long did it take for you to feel like you like one? It was the new version of you, and to you started building some traction.
spk_0: 38:05
Well, and that was that. I got immediate positive reaction. So, like that first email about you know why you sent me a picture of youth around women. We got a bunch of response like it was like, just they were laughing about it kind of thing. But then the next demon, I don't remember what the next email waas. And it was way too long. I know it was way too long because it took me a while to get to the point that I can really kind of, you know, I got brutal about it. I don't need to tell him what the date was. Who cares about, you know, those kinds of things. Getting rid of those details,
spk_1: 38:33
get the right details about all the details.
spk_0: 38:35
Exactly. So it was like it took me all the really kind of nail that in and tighten things up. But that very that second email is the one where I had someone respond and say like this is paraphrasing but pretty close, saying I've been on your list for a while and this is the first time I feel like you're not just a company, you're a person and it's the first time I want to do business with. So I got immediate positive feedback, and that was what was huge. And when I'll tell you is I can't promise you that you're gonna get it. But I've had so many people take what I teach on this, like the weekly email stuff, which is to me, all the other stuff is important. I teach people nurture sequence. I teach people welcome sequences. But to me, the weekly email you send is the most important thing you do. And I've taught people that, and I had people from like people who are just starting who said they got the first response ever to any email, like the first time I do it. And people like Jamie Seers who wonder if you know her from Amy's community, who has a big following. But she took what I did. First email she sent that was Bobby style. She got over 50 people responding. And so I've just had it proven over and over again and again. I can't promise you it's gonna happen every time. But it will happen if you are. You know, if you do this and open up and are willing to just be you and share yourself, you will find that you'll get those connections and it will happen pretty quickly. Um, well, I'll tell you, there will be a transition period. Some people are gonna like what's going on? Some people are gonna say goodbye and leave, and that's okay. Um, but over time you will start to build up all of these things and you just get like, random little responses. And some of them are just little like and some of them are more meaningful. And some of them are just like most of my e mails, air fun. But some of them are emotional in a different way. Like I shared the story in one email that my my dad was in a plane crash was severely burned a week and 1/2 before my third year of law school. And I was, um there was this competition I've been competing in since Ah, year before and I had made it to the final round, which would normally mean I was gonna get to argue before the United States Supreme Court justice in law school and, like my dad was, still had not woken up when I was gonna have to go back, like, six weeks later. And I had to make a decision. So I shared this story and it related to my podcast episode, and I had so many people emailed me back and say that they needed to hear that they needed to hear that message and it got them off their rear end. And so those are the things that you know. You will start having those impacts if you will share yourself in your email.
spk_1: 41:21
I think that is so powerful, and I think part of it, too, is I think people hold back on what they share, especially those emotional things, because if they feel like if they share something to overly emotional that it's going to show a side that they don't want to bring into their brand of personality, and it's it's interesting. How do you You'd mention that every once in a while you sure emotion. Do you have kind of like a rule of thumb that you follow around the types of e mails you send the funny ones, the lighthearted stories, the serious stories? Or do you discuss my gut intuition? I
spk_0: 41:54
go by my gut. I mean, with me s o funny funny thing. Here. I, um, at a recent mastermind retreat with James Widmore's mastermind. We have this personality expert who could, like, identify your personality by watching it in F taking tests. And apparently and then I've taken I've retaken test since then and it proves out I have the personality I share personality with comedians. So I am naturally going to be a comedian and a performer, So mine tend to be funny and lighthearted. And also, I say, I'm a Chandler from friends. I make jokes about things that make me uncomfortable. So, like, I have not been able to help myself. I've joked about the Corona virus, and I told people I said, Look, it's the only way I know how to deal with it. So this is how I'm gonna deal with it. And again, I tried. I'm not being insensitive, but I mean, it's kind of the way I ideal. And so most of minor funny. But sometimes I do share emotional things, like in my email this week. I mean, I shared that, you know, Um, we just finished a launch. Didn't hit our numbers because it was happening during this Corona virus. Everything hitting the fan. And I also shared that. I mean, I didn't share this. Probably like I'd had this run in with a guy on a Monday, Uh, a lawyer at a court. This was a month ago or so um, and he leans in and he's talking to me. And it was like, literally the Monday after We've had our first confirmed case of Corona virus in the city that Saturday And then after he's leaned in and talk to me, said, Oh, by the way, you know that guy who was just confirmed with chronic buyers? I was with him in shaking his hand, not too long. And I was like what? And two days later, I woke up with a cough, a soar throat and chest congestion, and I shared that in this email because I was like, You know, I clearly nothing was wrong with me. You know, if I if I had it clearly went away, and I'm fine. But I shared it and people actually responded said, You know, I felt like something was off with you for a couple of days, and so people had picked up on it even though I said it. So I share things like that and I share my failures. And part of this is me being lucky. Um, because because I started selling the legal stuff, not marketing stuff. I would share things that didn't work in my marketing of legal stuff and what I found Waas. People love that more than the success. And so I continued to do that, even though now people come to me for marketing, coaching and for all that stuff, I still share what I've screwed up because I think that's important. And if people are going to be mad at me because I share that I screwed up, I'm good. I'm glad to get rid of you now because I'm probably just scrubbing in some more, so we'll know it. Um, And so what? I tell you, people resonate with that stuff and everybody I know again, this goes back to that comment from Mel from two years ago. We all need to put more cow bell, and this is like authenticity on steroids. And I hate the word authenticity because most times when somebody say it says it, it's B s authenticity. It is like, Oh, I'm being authentic, you know? It's there, there, you know, call. You know, they're beautiful, whatever. And no one lives like that. I mean, if I could show you what what I'm seeing over here, you know, that's not on my screen. It is not good looking. Let me just tell you it's a mess.
spk_1: 45:09
I have two young kids at home. It looks like bombs went off in my artist.
spk_0: 45:14
And my point is like, people want to do that, but you can't do it. I don't believe in curated authenticity. If you're gonna be authentic, be authentic. And so that's what I d'oh. And that is the thing that residents now the other thing I do because I teach people marketing. I do a lot of what I what I call it breaking the fourth wall. It's not exactly breaking the fourth wall, but if you know the expression from um from stage. We're like an actor, like suspends the reality that there's, you know, and actually talks to the audience. Well, I do the same thing. I tell people I'm marketing to them when I'm marketing to them.
spk_1: 45:49
Yeah, I did the same thing in my marketing. People love
spk_0: 45:53
it. And I my recent launch, we were using a football phone method, and I talked about I said, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Most times of football phones are about as valuable is the original football phone there a piece of junk and you don't want it? This is never gonna do things like that.
spk_1: 46:08
People love that because it's also like it's learning. They see what's happening in real time. And there you don't look like you're trying to be all sleek and whatever. If, like, people want that real miss.
spk_0: 46:18
Yeah, and And the funny thing is, I was talking to my, um, integrated today. We're gonna make some shifts and some things I'm gonna start doing my I do to podcasts up those a week, and my Friday ones had kind of become the swift kick in the ass. You need toe to do something and we decided to start doing those live on Facebook. I'm gonna Facebook live, and then it will automatically get uploaded into lips since we decided that and we're talking about it and we'll make a series of T shirts because there are things like I say candidly a lot because I'm actually, you know, telling people the truth. And there's like, I'm gonna have one that says Guru rants because I ran a lot about gurus like leading people astray. So I do a lot of that stuff, but it's funny because, like, people look at me a guru as a guru, but I'm ranting about Don't listen too good roots and so and I'm open about and I say that. But, you know, do listen to me, but not anybody else. You know, I will. I make jokes about that because we have to.
spk_1: 47:15
I think I think we have to, and I think one of the things that I really appreciate and admire about you is you're not shy and sharing your opinion, even if that opinion might rub other people the wrong way or, I don't know, just piss people off like the end of the day like when you have an opinion. I share it whatever platform of a ton of email or social or your podcast, whatever that looks like. But share it as long as you have good intentions and you're trying to help people and it's not obviously like an offensive or discriminatory thing, you need to have your opinion. And don't worry about ruffling the feathers because I nobody wants to listen or loyally follow someone who just doesn't have a set of beliefs they're willing to fight
spk_0: 47:57
for. Yeah, well, and this is this actually brings to me to a wonderful kind of story. Something happened. So I was, um, at James Led Morris BBD Live last year, and they had a panel with his mastermind members, you know, talking and answering come talking answered questions. And this was for, like in the V i. P. Guests. And one of them had asked, Well, you know, like about Well, how do you go about being polarized? I said, you don't you just be you.
spk_1: 48:23
You just you just be Yeah, I was like, You don't like That's the problem. People are going.
spk_0: 48:27
Oh, I'm supposed to be polarized. I was a kid. But that doesn't mean you go out and say, Oh, I'm gonna stake out this opinion and we hear the same thing. It's like, Oh, when everybody's digging you should Zach, but only if you exact, you know, And that's the thing I've gotten to that point. And look, part is my hubris, right? Part of it is like I would say that my you know, my nickname should be going, you know, because I pretty darn fool of myself. So I'm very comfortable staking out opinions, and I might be wrong, but let me let you in on and I hate the word secret, but let me let you in on a secret here. Um, if you look at a lot of like the higher level entrepreneurs, they're all basically saying that the other ones were wrong and they're all friends. We're teaching what we believe and what we know and what has worked for us. And we on it like, if you honestly believe it, you should be willing to teach and you should be willing to stake. Put a stake in there like I became known as the anti launch guy. I am not anti launch, but I am anti spend all my money on Facebook ads right before launch and then try to sell the cold audience. Yeah, that's it, you know, because And so that's the thing. We end up kind of stake out positions that sometimes get parodied as extreme. But the reality is, yeah. I mean, you don't know what you believe in and stand for it.
spk_1: 49:51
Yeah, I think what I want you to know. I want you to hit on that piece. Here is we start running out here. I think something that's really common that happens in our industry is people see Bobby. They see an Amy, they see a James. They see whoever they get inspired. And they think Okay, they said, Be polarizing or at a story or whatever. Advice comes up, right? So people take that and they try to run with it. But it's the opposite of what we're recommending, which is just be yourself. Like, how do you balance this idea of bead inspired and taking advice and whatever from other people while channeling your yourself? Have you navigated
spk_0: 50:26
that well? So here's part of what I tell you that there is a There is a common journey of entrepreneurs, and I don't know if you went through this because you were, I think you know, you had a career and so you're, you know, maybe a bit different. But there's this common journey where people start with one mentor. They follow, and they literally do every. They try to replicate that person's business and do literally everything that that person said. And so they do that and then maybe they they then find a new teacher and take that course. And their mind is baloney because it's like, Wait, they're teaching me something different and I've seen it over and over again because I'm in Amy's communities and James's communities and like some of things they teach are very different, like James and Amy has now started changes. But forever, she said. I don't like pre selling. Of course, James says, sell it before you make it s so it's like, you know, and so I would see these people's like head explode, trying to figure it out and like the sign of a mature entrepreneur, ultimately is what you're doing. Like I there is not a single program anywhere that I do everything or even 50% of what they say. I take a little bit from here and I take a little bit from there and I take a little bit from there and then I modify. It might take a little bit from here in my mind, and and I come up with my thing, Um, and ultimately, that's what's gonna have to happen Partly because let me just give you again. Let me give you some perspective here. You can't just do what, like a seven or eight figure entrepreneurs doing if you're just starting out because you just can't. I mean, the way they run their business is so different. But here's the other thing, like like for me, for example, like someone If someone followed me and said, Well, like tryingto like follow my instagram strategy, that would be just dumb because my instagram kind of sucks. I mean, we just I don't spend time. There are a lot of ideas with people. Everyone swell, but Facebook is my place. But if you're not someone who wants to be engaging with people all the time and answering questions and groups and all this don't do that either. And you know, so, like, I I just help people. You ultimately have to find what works for you. But there are some common themes. Like when you look at the people have succeeded. They are authentic in the real authentic way. They are building an audience over the long term. They're building a fan base over the long term. They're not chasing the latest shiny object, you know? I mean, you mentioned all these people who, you know. I mean, if you look at what they have in common, they're creating content every week, they're building their list and they have a great offer. Businesses that symbol. Yeah, he is.
spk_1: 53:14
Oh, my gosh, that's so good. You know something that I think about? I love Cookie and I talk about cooking all the time, and I I think about what I was a kid. I looked up to one of my older sister's youngest of five kids. One of my older sister's developed this hate for tomatoes when I was a child. So I have this really vivid memory in my mind of hating tomatoes as a kick because I wanted to be like my older sister. And when I was no longer a little kid anymore, remember Ate tomatoes. And I'm like, Holy crap, I love these things like their own delicious and I and tell this story a lot of variation of it around. This idea of the end of the day, you're the one eating the food and you have to trust your own power. Like it doesn't matter how good somebody else thinks food is. How Stan see the food is how whatever it iss like. You're the one who has to eat, and you have to trust your own palate, which means you gotta try some things and figure out how it resonates with you. But I think it happened so much of the online space that people just take it right off the shelf and think it's gonna work exactly like that for them. And when it comes to being truly authentic and having your own personality, you're the only one who knows what that ISS. So you have to unlock
spk_0: 54:15
it. That's absolutely right. But I also want I want kind of give a piece of of like, let me stop for a 2nd 1 of the other things people do is they try to adopt a personality to match what they believe the audience wants. And like I've got, like, I've railed about the whole I see a work because I think some of the ideal customer avatar work that has suggested is dumb. Like what I mean is, I don't care that my audience largely female like that a large segment of them watch the real housewives of whatever I know they do. But, you know, I don't care about that because I think that show is everything that's wrong with this work. And so if I would, like, try to act like I like that show to connect with my audience, guess what's gonna happen? Like I could never do
spk_1: 55:01
it. But you can. You can make fun of them think anything is.
spk_0: 55:06
They will appreciate me saying that more than me trying to fake like something they like. Yeah, And so that's the thing I want to like. Everybody has their people. Now, look, if you're a neo Nazi, you know I don't have kind thoughts for you, but you probably, you know, is you got to just be you like you can't try to hide who you are and, um, you know, like, because it's not gonna come out. So, like, if you're a Star Trek fan, be a Star Trek. Don't pretend to be a Star Wars fan. As I understand it, one doesn't like the other. I don't know. But, you know, I just don't like people who are just trying to fit into what people like and again remember, This is coming from a guy who wore a suit like part of my part of my journey is like I was in a punk rock band in college. And then I tried to be a lawyer, Mac wearing a suit and doing all that, and it never fit because I'm still a punk rock kid, you know, at at the basic level, that's what I am. And you need to just be you, whatever that means. Now, again,
spk_1: 56:17
I'm probably not gonna like some of you. Just give it a really you
spk_0: 56:22
know, and again, like, I doubt you have a lot of the people hug. Oh, maybe you should hide that. But, you know, I'm just saying like too many people are doing that, and again, it's this we all want to be light. We all want you know these things, but I'll just tell you, you know, and I'll use the Star Trek example. If you are a Star Trek fan and you get a bunch of follower and you teach marketing and you get a bunch of followers were Star Trek that like trekking like they love it. Guess what? Talking about that and building up that core audience is gonna make you a lot more money than trying to be bland and talk to everybody. That's the key thing with email was speaking with social media with whatever you d'oh, um, that our level of really being you is what's going toe actually make the difference one
spk_1: 57:14
100% 100% you know, just to the use. Just one last thing care when you said that just it exemplify what you were talking about earlier. When somebody says something, it creates your own picture of in your mind where you say the whole like old me to thing. Just when you said the whole thing on Star Trek. I am not a Star Trek fan on any level. However, I have these really incredible memories of me as a kid with my parents watching Star Trek, and I just called it Star Track. That's how that's how bad this is for me but Star Trek. But for me, like I instantly tuned out for a second because I heard you say that. And I started thinking about memories of my parents and just going back to what you said earlier. When you tell stories in an email, you never know what it's going to spark within someone else. But it's going to smart, some kind of connection. Maybe it was just a word, or today, in my email, I talked about my purple trapper keeper growing up. I've already gotten a ton of e mails about that. I like little things. You never know what one detail or one thing is going to spark. And the beautiful thing is, you don't have to control what they create in their own mind because that's a gift you give them.
spk_0: 58:21
Yeah, what, right And there is a There is a gym of wisdom and what you just said, which is, like maybe listeners have noticed this. I've told a bunch of stories here, and they've been all over the place and that I'm intentional about. Because if if I did nothing but tell beer stores because I used to brew beer, you know I enjoy me. If that's all I did, that's great. I would connect with those people. But if I could, like, legitimately talk about different parts of my life, like if I talk about my daughter, people with kids can. Really? If I talk about brewing beer, people who love beer can connect. And so, by telling and sprinkling different details like you mentioned that the Trapper Keeper I had not thought about Trapper Keepers. I mean, he was like junior high from you. I don't remember, but, you know, it was like elementary junior high, and I haven't thought of him sense. But you said it. And like you said, my mind immediately goes back to instant, right? Yeah, And that's the thing when you can do those, like sparked those levels of connection and sprinkling your stories with different stories and different little details, and you you never know what's gonna connect
spk_1: 59:27
so great. Okay, Bobby, people I know are going to want to go on your email list to get your best of can you share a little bit about how people can stay connected with you?
spk_0: 59:35
Sure, I mean, so you can find me most places That body clings on. Bobby klink dot com is my website Facebook, the Bobby Klink Paige. And then you could find me personally, Instagram Witcher said. We're not great at, but whatever it is, it's at Bobby Clank, Um, and you can on my website. You just sign up for my email list. But I also have this thing that my team and I call Emma. It's my email marketing map assessment. It basically gives you a four letter, Ah, four letter kind of personality, like the mire sprigs test does. And it kind of tells you what you should do it every step of the email journey. And if people want to see that, you can go toe bobby klink dot com forward slash email map. Good news. If you go through that, you will go through my nurture sequence, a welcome sequence and then get onto my thing. So you'll kind of see the welcomes. English is my greatest hits, and so you'll see kind of a lot of these. Some of these e mails we've talked about and then one that, um well, we haven't talked about yet, but that had Tarr's in respond and say the student has become the master. And then, like, there were, like, five expletives in it. E
spk_1: 1:0:45
have a couple of those from her to
spk_0: 1:0:48
you could not imagine that. I just said that the story. So you get a lot of that and you really do see, you know what I'm doing?
spk_1: 1:0:56
Yeah, that's great. I building to all about here below on the show notes the guys, Check that. I did the the assessment that Bobby's talking about just like I gotta check out his like his his quiz thing here it sze Wonderful. And I think it really simplifies the whole email structure. For those of you just getting started or trying to get more consistent, I think I'd be really great tool for you. So, body last question for you, I ask all of my guests this the name of the show is finding your it factor, which I believe it's something that we all have within us. We just have to discover what that is. I'm curious what you deem as your factor
spk_0: 1:1:26
quality. So my it factor in the way people describe it is that, um I have an ability to connect with people online in a way that they feel like they're my friends and like, in a genuine way, like and I'd like to say that I view things online is like kind of like I do on my business, like the small town local general store did back in the seventies. And so that's my a factor that, like I just have this ability to connect with people and, um, you know, I learned it. It's not something I was good at. I thought I was an introvert forever, which everybody laughs at. Um, I didn't think I was funny forever. And so it's something that I've cultivated, but that is my thing, and it really is what what I think drives before it, and it's the thing. It's like you said, like, you know, people see me all over place. How is this guy comin? And constantly How's he just giving and all of those things and that's all part of it, wrapped into it
spk_1: 1:2:31
so good. I love the fact that you're able to articulate that and stand confidently with it. I think that's a really important piece around in businesses. You once you find it, like the secret to rockin it is, you have to own it and be confident with it. You can be confident and humble simultaneously regardless of what that speech judge said. Bobby, thank you so much for being on the show. It was such a pleasure connecting with you today and I can't wait for my listeners to hear all of this. Goodness,
spk_0: 1:2:57
It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
spk_1: 1:2:59
Alright, guys. We'll see you next time. Same time, same place. Guys. Thanks so much for listening to finding your it factor. And, hey, if you have a top coming up, you have to check out my free resource. It's called Nail. Your Next talk. 10 must ask questions before taking the stage so you can show up is an authority and turn that talk into future business. These are the questions that I use myself to prepare for my life talks, and they're going to help you ask the right questions of the person who booked you for the event. So the meeting planner or the client, and it's going to help you serve your audience to the best way possible. It's gonna help you anticipate potential tack or 80 snags. Turn the Q and a time into a strategic place for content and make this speaking opportunity a lead generator for your business. So go get it Now. What are you waiting for? Its over at heather. Sager dot com forward slash 10 questions.